D&D 5E New Class Brainstorming. Magekinght.

[bedir than]

There is that, the only thing is that a lot of the ideas are "more damage" which I am fine with but "moar damage" is also subclass on the Ranger (hunter) and the Paladin (Avenger).

The existing classes are fairly iconic for a reason and the Paladin perhaps has very iconic abilities, fighter, rogues, ranger for example are mostly titles now. I would rather have a mechanically good class that works over a thing that may or may not work. The EKs war mage thing could be the gish thing, cast a spell and attack. Might be able to word it so you can substitute an attack and since I do not plan of giving this class 3 ro 4 attacks it could work.

I'm fine if we end up with a better gish than the EK even if its not that original, the EK will be the better fighter. The war mage thing could be level 6 ability perhaps as the fighter gets an ASI and the Paladin gets the aura.

What's the narrative/legendary character represented by your idea that is unique to your idea?

Sure, we could wind up disagreeing about how they classify with your gish build against Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, Valor Bard, Hex Blade, but currently I'm not seeing any concept that is represented by those in any way.

I'm working on a mere subclass for the Rogue and the first approach to what the powers will be is "Who is this?"

5e is more narrative in language, a lot of how classes/archetypes are built are about how those powers are described in natural language.

 

[77IM]

Hey, I made a thing! Adept Class

For me, the biggest challenge was coming up with a story for the class that isn't exactly the same as a fighter/wizard multiclass. So here's where it wound up:
- The base class, the Adept, is a sort of pragmatic anti-paladin, who defies destiny. They're independent free spirits, who don't follow any gods or ideals, just their own personal drive.
- They combine combat with arcane magic because... it's really smart. They're primarily warriors but the magic is an important backup. A few special abilities involve resisting fate and manipulating fortune.
- The three subclasses are the Spellblade (more mercenary, more solo), the Vigilante (self-taught, skill-oriented) and the Warder (protective, gets along well with others).

Anyway, feel free to steal any of these ideas or mechanics if you like!

 

[cbwjm]

So many people ask about a character or story for the class when really, all you need is that they are an arcane gish class. You don't need to have some amazing narrative to explain the class other than a half-caster warrior class focusing on arcane magic.

 

[Jester David]

There is that, the only thing is that a lot of the ideas are "more damage" which I am fine with but "moar damage" is also subclass on the Ranger (hunter) and the Paladin (Avenger).

"Moar damage" is okay for 2 of the 10 class features. And it's a passable hook for a subclass. But the class still needs an identity for the remaining 80% of its options.

The existing classes are fairly iconic for a reason and the Paladin perhaps has very iconic abilities, fighter, rogues, ranger for example are mostly titles now. I would rather have a mechanically good class that works over a thing that may or may not work. The EKs war mage thing could be the gish thing, cast a spell and attack. Might be able to word it so you can substitute an attack and since I do not plan of giving this class 3 ro 4 attacks it could work.

Yeah, but nobody plays a class solely because it's "mechanically good".
Mechanically good is nice, but the majority of players look for other reasons to play a class.
And there's not some sort of limitation on creativity. A class can be flavourful and have strong story hooks and be solid mechanically.

Plus, the class needs out of combat options and ribbons. Several levels should just be new spells, with features that support the interaction and exploration pillars. And without a solid story foundation, you can't create those options.

 

[DEFCON 1]

So many people ask about a character or story for the class when really, all you need is that they are an arcane gish class. You don't need to have some amazing narrative to explain the class other than a half-caster warrior class focusing on arcane magic.

Then why do you need a new class rather than just a fighter/wizard multiclass? That's the point.

If mechanics are all that matters, then just use the paladin or ranger as-is and just say "all this stuff is arcane magic!". Because if the story doesn't matter, then why even bother refluffing anything?

 

[Ancalagon]

I suggest something a little more radical. Instead of having set spell slots, have spell slots come on line when you hit something with a melee weapon: 1 hit lets you cast a cantrip once, if you make 2 hits and don't cast a cantrip, you can cast a 1st level spell once, etc. (spells need to be cast before you complete a short or long rest). The maximum level of spell you can cast should be equal to a wizard's at the same level. I would link it to a full caster rather than a half caster, because you aren't going to be casting spells that often compared to either full or half casters. Even assuming the class eventually makes two attacks a round, that is still 5 rounds of combat before you cast a 9th level spell.

This leads to an interesting gimmick for subclasses: each could provide something different magicwise for you to do before you hit something (preferably to better enable you to hit something and to survive the experience).

In my mind, this is the best gish because it makes both the fighter part and the mage part important. It also means this class would shine in hard slogs--when the other casters have ran out of spell slots and reduced to cantrips and regular weapon attacks, this PC is hitting his/her stride.

The idea is very interesting but it's too easy to cheese. I can see such a character buying sheep for example.

 

[Ancalagon]

I recommend that you (everyone really,) read the 80s system dragon warriors. While it has issues, it's full of very neat ideas.

In this system there is no multiclass. The gish class (called the warlock ha!) has a few things going for it:

It has its own spell list. (Some of which were very cool)

At high level they can forge a powerful magical sword.

They are experts at casting defensive/buffing fast. A part of their spell list was clearly labeled as such, two such spells could be cast in one round.

There are other things too that I can't remember at the moment.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Now see, that's the kind of interesting an unique mechanic that a core class can be built around! If you are to go that route, I would probably allow the class to get Extra Attacks equivalent to a fighter. This would allow a for the mechanic to have a natural way to progress, so that you are not having to wait multiple rounds or multiple combats at high levels just to get a 5th+ level spell off. The other alternative would be increasing the level of the spell an attack starts with and adding one spell level from there. I.E. at first level your first hit allows you to gain a 1st level spell slot, with subsequent growing the spell slot by one step; at 5th level your first hit allows you to get a 2nd level spell slot, with subsequent hits increasing the slot by one step, ect.

That would actually be a really interesting class.

EDIT: The only problem I can see potentially is how you define an eligible target for the attack. I could see this leading to a new "bag of rats" problem where between combats this character would constantly have a horde of small, low CR critters to kill and refill spell slots.

I think the solution to the bag o' rats is to have a minimum damage per hit be necessary for it to count. Five (1d8) seems good, not a lot of small, easily transportable animals with that many hp's. (Although I could see many a player trying to convince the DM that a bag of rats is really a rat swarm....).

Originally I was thinking the class could get something like the eldritch knight (one swing, one cantrip), but sleeping on it last night, if that was all, it cuts down on the difference between the classes/subclasses too much (if all you were going to do was swing and cantrip, why not play the EK?). My first thought was to make a critical hit worth two "hits" in terms charging spells (or you could cast one highest level spell you know if you decline the critical damage), but that is still a little swingy. I do like the idea of lowering the cost of the spell, maybe starting at 7th level or when the other full casters are probably indifferent to "the mageknight is casting a 1st level spell every other round", and then one more cost cut at 11th level and a final one at 20th level.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the solution to the bag o' rats is to have a minimum damage per hit be necessary for it to count. Five (1d8) seems good, not a lot of small, easily transportable animals with that many hp's. (Although I could see many a player trying to convince the DM that a bag of rats is really a rat swarm....).

Originally I was thinking the class could get something like the eldritch knight (one swing, one cantrip), but sleeping on it last night, if that was all, it cuts down on the difference between the classes/subclasses too much (if all you were going to do was swing and cantrip, why not play the EK?). My first thought was to make a critical hit worth two "hits" in terms charging spells (or you could cast one highest level spell you know if you decline the critical damage), but that is still a little swingy. I do like the idea of lowering the cost of the spell, maybe starting at 7th level or when the other full casters are probably indifferent to "the mageknight is casting a 1st level spell every other round", and then one more cost cut at 11th level and a final one at 20th level.

Think I will go with the "if you hit you can cast a spell thing". Not sure if I will have it for free, use the reaciton or bonus action.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Think I will go with the "if you hit you can cast a spell thing". Not sure if I will have it for free, use the reaciton or bonus action.

Cool. Let us know how it works. I haven't actually tried this yet--it fell out of an idea for a warlock invocation that would give you some kind of juicy power up if you killed something (and dedicated the death to your patron) where the power up would last one round per CR, but then I felt like big evil types would also want you to kill (basically) helpless low level things to get the warlock in the practice of doing bad things. I haven't made that work to my satisfaction yet either.