D&D 5E New class options in Tasha

[cbwjm]

You could grant a limited form of spell versatility. Every time you gain a spell known, you add 2 spells, one to your spells known and one to a spell pool. After a long rest, swap out any known spell for any spell in your spell pool. This could then interact with sorcery points granting an ability to swap out a spell known for a spell pool spell instantly by spending a couple of spell points. This would grant a 1st level sorcerer 4 spells in their spell pool, two of which are locked in.

 

[MoonSong]

Another thing would be to remove the spell you want to swap out from your known spells for a time, even until your next long rest, after which you can put in a new spell; I still think this would be too quick a turnaround--but at least you would have to have some cost associated with using the feature.

That is quite a steep cost.

 

[DND_Reborn]

You could grant a limited form of spell versatility. Every time you gain a spell known, you add 2 spells, one to your spells known and one to a spell pool. After a long rest, swap out any known spell for any spell in your spell pool. This could then interact with sorcery points granting an ability to swap out a spell known for a spell pool spell instantly by spending a couple of spell points. This would grant a 1st level sorcerer 4 spells in their spell pool, two of which are locked in.

This would have been a better feature IMO. It effectively doubles the number of known spells a caster can have.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That is quite a steep cost.

Depends on what you are doing... In the middle of an adventure? Maybe. During downtime it would just double the time required to swap a spell--still too quick IMO but at least better.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You don't need to be familiar with the place to use clairvoyance, but it isn't going to be a spell you cast from the comfort of your living room. It can be a place which is obvious and unfamiliar to you. You could cast it targeting a castle that you can see to get a look in. The book mentions the other side of a door, around a corner, or a in a grove of trees. Since casting divinations so that you know how to swap your spells out means you have time anyway, you should be able to have multiple castings in a day to better prepare you for the time ahead. The real limiter is, as you've mentioned, that you can't move the sensor.

I saw that, but I figure the problem is distance and LOS.

If I am level 15, and I am within a mile of the enemy castle, then I'm already in the danger zone. And, while I can cast it in an obvious place (such as past the gates) I would say casting it in a more specific place like "in the throne room" is impossible. You don't know where that is and so you can't place the sensor there.

If your high level threat doesn't have counter measures for people casting this spell, such as having more serious defenses within the castle, where they won't be seen by the spell, or having a few look outs with the ability to see invisible things, then they aren't taking advantage of those high level resources.

But, it is slightly more versatile than I stated.

 

[Helldritch]

Why do every body want to scry an enemy?
Pick a mouse, a familliar or whatever small creature you can find and send it in. Scry it as it invisibly scurry around the castle, fort, cave or whatever and as you see enemies, you now have seen them (and scry them later). You can even now teleport into the place as you now have seen it.

You can learn about some of the dead inhabitants and use contact other plane and question them about the strength and weaknesses of the place. After a few days you almost know the place as good as the inhabitants. Teleport into an empty (or unused or not often entered) store room. Use Arcane eye, and finish the scrying and get the info you need.

Hell, a high level rogue with expertise in sneaking can do this on his own without getting caught. Getting info is not something that hard to do.

Once you know what you're up against, change your spell list as you wish since now you can do it. Before the wizard disappeared, you only needed a wizard, now you need either a bard with the right secret or a warlock. But this is hardly a problem now isn't it? Since most groups that I am aware of are usually 5 or 4 with an NPC...

 

[Vael]

You either don't get it or don't appreciate it.

I just reject the premises of your argument. To recap: This rule breaks Sorcerers if they can meet both of the following criteria:
1. Perfect knowledge of what the next encounter will be.
AND
2. Effectively unlimited number of extended rests with which to sculpt their spell list.

Let's start with the second premise. The fifth level example you throw around requires 6 days, so about a week with zero encounters in the interim. Apparently, we've gone past the 15-minute work day, and are now into a 15 minute work week!

(This is also why I haven't bothered to discuss your proposed downtime house rule, if your tables are under such little time pressure that taking a week off before the next adventure is trivial, then why not just make it 6 weeks?)

As for the first premise, that has been pretty thoroughly gone through in this whole thread. Sorcerers lack most of the scrying and divination spells that would give the player in game knowledge of the spells they need, and as much as it'd be really cool, I am not currently gaming with Paul Atreides and Cassandra.

So, no, I don't see this as a broken rule, I see two primary use cases:

1. I've made a huge mistake, ie, the player has picked a spell that does not work the way they thought. Key example, the number of players that continue to pick Crown of Madness and keep casting it on the solo monster.

2. Adapting to the environment. Sure, if the campaign has lead the party out of the wilds and will be in a city for the next few days, the Sorcerer might say, "Well, not gonna need Alter Self for awhile, but Enhance Ability would be more helpful here".

(A third niche case as well, is for Wild Sorcerers in particular. I've had players discuss building a "random slot" where one of the Wild Sorcerer's spells is assumed to be retrained after every rest and they roll randomly on a table at the beginning of the day to find out what spell they actually have that day.)

These do not strike me as game breaking changes. They give the Sorcerer an advantage, for sure, but then, this is the same rule being given to all casters with a "Spells Known" column. Rangers, Warlocks and Bards are also getting this boon, and I don't see the same level of "Oh no, the sky is falling" with regards to them. Prepared casters have been customizing their spell selection since day 1 and it hasn't broken the game either.

 

[Helldritch]

But, do not restrict to one type of campaign. That is why you do not see the whole picture. Here are a few example of campaign types I have had in the last few years.
The short adventure campaign: this kind of campaign is the most or one of the most affected by the rule. Many weeks can pass between adventures. Sometimes whole seasons. Tales from the Yawning Portal is such an example.

The long run campaign : This campaign is pure adventure non stop. The characters must go from point to the other with almost or no down time at all. Curse of Strhad is a good example. This is the least impacted by the new rule. This is probably the kind of game you are playing.

The Generation campaign: In this one, many years can pass between adventure. Players are building kingdoms and empire. Very often, the players will even play different groups with some 9f them the direct heirs of their characters. I even had a game with only elves (in 1ed) that spawned 2000 years, starting about 500 years before the invoked devastations in Greyhawk. Such a game would have been greatly impacted by the rule.

There are so many ways to play and there are campaign types that blend the previous three above. The AP like CoS are the least impacted by the rule, but as soon as the long run type is left, the rule starts to show its ugly side very fast.

Again, the higher you play, the more the potential for abuse this rule becomes. If you stick to long run adventures where down time is amost non existant, you'll probably never have any problems. But if you play an other style... you're done.

 

[Li Shenron]

You can now learn a new spell in place of another of the same level whenever you finish a long rest.

I still think that people are generally underestimating the potential impact of Spell Versatility.

This is definitely not a "retraining rule", because of the fact that you can swap one spell every single long rest.

This is a challenge-bypass rule. Just because it is limited to ONE spell and requires at least one long rest of waiting, it doesn't make it trivial. You are not really going to exploit this rule much if you just change one combat spell into another (which is what 90% of the people seem to think about), but you ARE going to exploit it when you know tomorrow you have a long trip ahead that you can bypass by flying or teleporting, and next day you need to breathe underwater, and next day you need to telepathically contact someone very far away, and next day you need party invisibility to sneak into the castle, and next day you need to reveal a key clue with a clairvoyance and so on... Sure if you need ALL of these tomorrow, maybe Spell Versatility won't help you.

The game already has too many spells designed to bypass specific non-combat challenges. Those spells are designed for people who dislike non-combat challenges or having to come up with creative ways to solve problems, where "creative" means at least not just press-a-button spells. Those spells DO get in the way of other players who maybe want to have some fun thinking about how to beat a challenge instead of pressing a button, even if it requires to wait until tomorrow, and it can actually spoil other player's character builds.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I think a lot of people are panicking too much about a purely optional rule.

Those who want to can use it; those who don't needn't.