D&D 5E New D&D Next Playtest package is up (19/9/2013) [merged threads]
- Thread starter xechnao
- Start date
Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
So, Lore (rather than skills) from the previous packet is gone, but it's on the form-fillable character sheet? Or do we still have lore as well and I just haven't seen it yet?
-rg
-rg
Kinak
First Post
Szatany
First Post
I'm reading through the packet right now and here's some issues I still have with the rules. I'll begin with races:
- I don't like that advantage on rolls is granted left and right. It should be left as a DM's tool, for situational modifiers only (or mostly). Definitely not for characters to rely on. For example, dwarven resilience should give proficiency bonus to saves against poison, not advantage on rolls. Same with stonecunning, keen senses, fey ancestry, brave, stout resilience, gnome cunning, artificer's lore, menacing
- I also dislike immunities, like kender's fearless. At the very least reword them like this:
Fearless: You fail saving throws against effects that frighten only on a natural roll of 1.
That way you still have ability that's mostly as powerful as it was, but that tiny chance of failure doesn't reduce the tension you'd otherwise have during a climax battle etc.
- Racial weapon training abilities. Makes little sense that every single dwarf/elf etc. knows how to use same few weapons, even if he or she wasn't raised by his/her people. Also useless ability for martial classes. Even an option to take a single language or tool proficiency instead would be welcome.
- Mountain dwarf's armor mastery: meh, I'd prefer something more flavorful.
- maybe no race should automatically know how to read and write but it's a minor issue. An option to choose another language instead of literacy would be fine for worlds with low level of civilization.
- humans: hated how they are presented since day one. And it seems most people agree with me. Not gonna say anything else, there were already plenty of ideas shown on this boards how to change them.
- dragonborn - it's very weird you can dodge a lightning but you can't dodge a spray of liquid (green dragon poison has Con save)
- rock gnome's abilities make it look like a class more than a race.
- half-elf: very boring, but it's a elf-human hybrid so maybe that's ok that he has nothing unique.
- half-orc. Very bland. Make STR+1 and give him something interesting.
- Warforged - i don't like magical robots as characters. If they were magical cyborgs, with bits of flesh still inside and thus more vulnerable to things all other players are vulnerable to, I'd be more ok with them.
- I don't like that advantage on rolls is granted left and right. It should be left as a DM's tool, for situational modifiers only (or mostly). Definitely not for characters to rely on. For example, dwarven resilience should give proficiency bonus to saves against poison, not advantage on rolls. Same with stonecunning, keen senses, fey ancestry, brave, stout resilience, gnome cunning, artificer's lore, menacing
- I also dislike immunities, like kender's fearless. At the very least reword them like this:
Fearless: You fail saving throws against effects that frighten only on a natural roll of 1.
That way you still have ability that's mostly as powerful as it was, but that tiny chance of failure doesn't reduce the tension you'd otherwise have during a climax battle etc.
- Racial weapon training abilities. Makes little sense that every single dwarf/elf etc. knows how to use same few weapons, even if he or she wasn't raised by his/her people. Also useless ability for martial classes. Even an option to take a single language or tool proficiency instead would be welcome.
- Mountain dwarf's armor mastery: meh, I'd prefer something more flavorful.
- maybe no race should automatically know how to read and write but it's a minor issue. An option to choose another language instead of literacy would be fine for worlds with low level of civilization.
- humans: hated how they are presented since day one. And it seems most people agree with me. Not gonna say anything else, there were already plenty of ideas shown on this boards how to change them.
- dragonborn - it's very weird you can dodge a lightning but you can't dodge a spray of liquid (green dragon poison has Con save)
- rock gnome's abilities make it look like a class more than a race.
- half-elf: very boring, but it's a elf-human hybrid so maybe that's ok that he has nothing unique.
- half-orc. Very bland. Make STR+1 and give him something interesting.
- Warforged - i don't like magical robots as characters. If they were magical cyborgs, with bits of flesh still inside and thus more vulnerable to things all other players are vulnerable to, I'd be more ok with them.
I like what they did with Barbarians, they can fight topless again. I liked the Monk's unarmed fighting improvement including flurry.
I really love the Bard. Did anyone else notice that Bard magic is not arcane, its specifically unspecified and possible uses multiple power sources. They couch the fluff in terms of Bard spells as just more scraps of knoweldge he or she picks up here and there. College of Valour is perfect for those that wish to play an Gish if one decides that spells they've aquired are arcane. Getting 5 spells from any classes spell lists can lead to some funny stuff, like a Bard that picks Hunter's Quarry from the Ranger, Disintigrating Smite from the Paladin, the Paladin's Oath Mount spell when it comes out, Find Familiar from the Wizard, and Wrathful Smite from the Paladin.
Paladin. I find that Paladin's can choose Archery fighting style kind of funny given they don't have any ranged weapon profiencies. They can take the Archery Mastery Feat or use thrown weapons, but honestly very much a suboptimal choice.
Paladin's mount will be a spell, as others have mentioned. This means the Bard can ultimately steal it. Still its gives mounts flexiblity. My bet is the spell will be very simular in design to find familiar, but more powerful. So you get a list of possible mounts, you summon one permantly and can summon or dismiss it with a minor ritual. Just a guess.
When I first looked at the Paladin I did not like it, as it lost alot of Oath features including thier mount! Should have read the read this document first! Spells are way more important for this verison of the Paladin. The most awesome thing is the new Paladin spells like smites, cruasader's mantle, and Elemental Weapon, and auras. The smite class feature is more useful to multiclass Paladin's then to full Paladin's as the Paladin gets really cool smite spells. Looking at the multiclass tables a 10 Paladin/10 Mage can cast up to level 8 spells which means this character can do a 9d8 radiant smite damage by spending a 8th level spell slot something a full Paladin can't do (although 20 level Paladin with Disintergrating Smite is likely to be a more powerful Smite at 5d10 plus improved Smite's 1d8 if the target fails its save for an additional 2d10 each time it fails).
Personally I'd make aura of resolves, divine health, and aura of courage Oath features of devotion again. Sacred Weapon means if one starts at level 3 strength and Dex can be treated as dump stats and the Paladin can still be an effective melee fighter if she has high Charisma.
Paladin is also the most resource fiddly class as one has to keep track of Spell useage, Lay on Hands points, Channel Divinity, and Cleansing Touch, which I actually like. A Paladin who chooses Protection as thier fighting style is your bff, his aura protects you from fear and charm and Aura of Protection adds his Charisma to your saving throws, and he can use his reaction to grant disadvantage to attacks against you, can heal you via Lay on Hands or buff you via spells.
Paladin's are also the beings that Succubi wake up screaming terror of. She can see through your shape shifting, is immune to your charms, and can share that immunity, her smite can send the succubus back to the lower planes, and She can even turn the Succubus and any other fiends she summons like undead, even use it to kill her. Seriously if I'm a Succubus I just flying away if I ever see a Paladin of the devotion Oath coming my way.
Cleric feels very 4e with Channel Divinity 3 times before short rests, daily spells including healing word, and even at will Cantrips (Orisons), and War Priest Domains. Settings will grant deities instead of domain giving a more 2e speciality priest feel option.
Rangers, I still don't like favoured enemies, I'd rather favoured terrain as subclasses.
Mage needs to explain how one trades out wizardary for other forms of magic. Removing the evocations resistance ignoring is disappointing.
Multiclassing one should just use which ever casting stat one chooses from the classes one is a member of.
Fighter I really miss the Knight.
The one thing that really bugs me, insanely is where the heck is the Warden and subclasses like that that we were told would be in the packet? Hopefully they will be in the update.
I really love the Bard. Did anyone else notice that Bard magic is not arcane, its specifically unspecified and possible uses multiple power sources. They couch the fluff in terms of Bard spells as just more scraps of knoweldge he or she picks up here and there. College of Valour is perfect for those that wish to play an Gish if one decides that spells they've aquired are arcane. Getting 5 spells from any classes spell lists can lead to some funny stuff, like a Bard that picks Hunter's Quarry from the Ranger, Disintigrating Smite from the Paladin, the Paladin's Oath Mount spell when it comes out, Find Familiar from the Wizard, and Wrathful Smite from the Paladin.
Paladin. I find that Paladin's can choose Archery fighting style kind of funny given they don't have any ranged weapon profiencies. They can take the Archery Mastery Feat or use thrown weapons, but honestly very much a suboptimal choice.
Paladin's mount will be a spell, as others have mentioned. This means the Bard can ultimately steal it. Still its gives mounts flexiblity. My bet is the spell will be very simular in design to find familiar, but more powerful. So you get a list of possible mounts, you summon one permantly and can summon or dismiss it with a minor ritual. Just a guess.
When I first looked at the Paladin I did not like it, as it lost alot of Oath features including thier mount! Should have read the read this document first! Spells are way more important for this verison of the Paladin. The most awesome thing is the new Paladin spells like smites, cruasader's mantle, and Elemental Weapon, and auras. The smite class feature is more useful to multiclass Paladin's then to full Paladin's as the Paladin gets really cool smite spells. Looking at the multiclass tables a 10 Paladin/10 Mage can cast up to level 8 spells which means this character can do a 9d8 radiant smite damage by spending a 8th level spell slot something a full Paladin can't do (although 20 level Paladin with Disintergrating Smite is likely to be a more powerful Smite at 5d10 plus improved Smite's 1d8 if the target fails its save for an additional 2d10 each time it fails).
Personally I'd make aura of resolves, divine health, and aura of courage Oath features of devotion again. Sacred Weapon means if one starts at level 3 strength and Dex can be treated as dump stats and the Paladin can still be an effective melee fighter if she has high Charisma.
Paladin is also the most resource fiddly class as one has to keep track of Spell useage, Lay on Hands points, Channel Divinity, and Cleansing Touch, which I actually like. A Paladin who chooses Protection as thier fighting style is your bff, his aura protects you from fear and charm and Aura of Protection adds his Charisma to your saving throws, and he can use his reaction to grant disadvantage to attacks against you, can heal you via Lay on Hands or buff you via spells.
Paladin's are also the beings that Succubi wake up screaming terror of. She can see through your shape shifting, is immune to your charms, and can share that immunity, her smite can send the succubus back to the lower planes, and She can even turn the Succubus and any other fiends she summons like undead, even use it to kill her. Seriously if I'm a Succubus I just flying away if I ever see a Paladin of the devotion Oath coming my way.
Cleric feels very 4e with Channel Divinity 3 times before short rests, daily spells including healing word, and even at will Cantrips (Orisons), and War Priest Domains. Settings will grant deities instead of domain giving a more 2e speciality priest feel option.
Rangers, I still don't like favoured enemies, I'd rather favoured terrain as subclasses.
Mage needs to explain how one trades out wizardary for other forms of magic. Removing the evocations resistance ignoring is disappointing.
Multiclassing one should just use which ever casting stat one chooses from the classes one is a member of.
Fighter I really miss the Knight.
The one thing that really bugs me, insanely is where the heck is the Warden and subclasses like that that we were told would be in the packet? Hopefully they will be in the update.
Oh one major problem with races, they seperated Tieflings from Planetouched which sounds like it will be its own race. I'd suggest renaming these very 4e tieflings Cambions, make tieflings a subrace of Planetouched and put both in the PHB, other wise Planescape fans will start gathering with pitchforks and tourches. And 4e tieflings come from Nentar Vale originally, as a concept they were an important into FR, FR original were the pre 4e style. I wish if they were going to do this they added the Planetouch touched race to the packet so we can compare and contrast.
I love it, so glad they have not swayed; humans rock!
Jeff Carlsen
Adventurer
It feels like the attacks section got a bit overlooked. I suspect that you're no longer supposed to gain disadvantage when attacking with a weapon which you are not proficient with.
Also, I was hoping they would provide a new character sheet, or better yet, have run another contest. I'd have loved another chance to get my sheet in front of more people.
I'd like to see the XP chart repeated in every class chart, so that players only ever have to look in one place.
I still hate humans and the lack of racial penalties. It sometimes feels like I'm being trolled here, because the rest of the game seems to conform to my tastes more with every change.
Finally, I'm sad that we didn't get the downtime or inspiration rules, or any of the major modules. And that the public playtest is ending. It'll be tough waiting for the final product.
Also, I was hoping they would provide a new character sheet, or better yet, have run another contest. I'd have loved another chance to get my sheet in front of more people.
I'd like to see the XP chart repeated in every class chart, so that players only ever have to look in one place.
I still hate humans and the lack of racial penalties. It sometimes feels like I'm being trolled here, because the rest of the game seems to conform to my tastes more with every change.
Finally, I'm sad that we didn't get the downtime or inspiration rules, or any of the major modules. And that the public playtest is ending. It'll be tough waiting for the final product.
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