NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Alzrius]

Adslahnit, you're forgetting that a psionic character using a metapsionic feat needs to expend psionic focus to activate that feat when using the power. That means that, when stacking multiple metapsionic feats (even if it's the same feat multiple times via Metapsionic Freedom), he's still going to need to expend psionic focus for every individual metapsionic feat used with that power.

Since characters normally only have a single psionic focus, that basically means they're extremely limited in using multiple metapsionic feats at once (for example, Epic Psionic Focus grants you an additional psionic focus purely for using a second metapsionic feat on a power, and can be taken multiple times - meaning you'd need to take that feat multiple times before you could really start to stack metapsionic feats).

There are some ways to get around this limitation to various degrees, but it's not easy. The easiest way is to have the Focused Metapsionics feat from High Psionics: Psionic Feats by Dreamscarred Press, which lets you retain psionic focus when using a metapsionic feat, but makes the feat cost an additional 2 power points (counting against your normal limit of power points used for a power).

Using that feat (which need only be taken once) a psionic character can then use a lot more metapsionic feats on a single power, but he'll find that the expanded cost keeps things much more scaled.

 

[dante58701]

That's very true. Psions at first glance might seem like power houses, but in truth their power lies not in boosting, but rather in flexibility.

I commonly make use of both the Psionics Is Different rule and the Evolution rule.

Essentially allowing psionic characters to ignore magic dead zones and antimagic effects. Sensible considering that the power is not magic at all and comes from the mind, rather than magic. It also makes psionic creatures weaker against magic and magical creatures weaker against psionics, without making them too weak.

Since Krusty has himself used the Psionics is Different rule, it still irritates me that he has made the science domain magic-based and made it negate psionics. He needs to get his rule sets straight or runs the risk of looking as stupid as I do at times.

Either magic and psionics are different (which would make negation and magic vs. psionics abilities sensible) or magic and psionics are two sides of the same coin (which would make the spell-like abilities (that mimic non-existent spells even) sensible).

You can't blend the two rules...psionics are either the same or different...not both...that is just paradoxally retarded.

If he really wants to fix it...he should just have the Science portfolio rely upon the Telepathy Discipline, which is the heart of the scientific mind. Xavier being a prime example of that.

He should also offer up the other 5 disciplines tied into Portfolios somehow. But even if he doesn't the Science Portfolio still looks like crap. It's the only one I don't really like. And for all the reasons stated above.

I'd love to play a mad scientist...but the Science Portfolio is broken, mangled, and just sadly put together. Which makes sense considering Krusty mentioned not being too familiar with psionics.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Adslahnit, you're forgetting that a psionic character using a metapsionic feat needs to expend psionic focus to activate that feat when using the power. That means that, when stacking multiple metapsionic feats (even if it's the same feat multiple times via Metapsionic Freedom), he's still going to need to expend psionic focus for every individual metapsionic feat used with that power.

That's not what the current wording for Automatic Metapsionic Capacity says, which lets you spontaneous augment powers with metapsionic feats without having to expend focus. Granted, it's not an official feat, but U_K did use it for his stats for Galactus, making it a semi-official feat.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

As I just mentioned on the website, the Ascension cover is basically done, but I have two nights of nightshift before being off for the rest of the week. So I'll scan it in and upload it at the first available opportunity.

This, my friend, is why Photoshop rocks. After using Photoshop, sometimes I wish my pencils had an Undo button...

I'm still a relative novice at Photoshop though, I can just about fix the scan lines and merge the four quarters into one cover.

Also I got the heat vision painted and it looks awesome (I don't know what the heck I was worrying about).

Theres about an hours work left on the cover, the warriors cloak and the dwarves shield, a few bits and bobs and its done. Its looking pretty good.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Anabstercorian dude!

So, how's progress on failing to complete that long-awaited product?

The usual...you know me mate.

The cover is basically done, I should have the text revisions finished by the end of the week. That will leave about a dozen interior illustrations to finish off. I should get at least half of those finished before the end of November.

I'm planning the next update for the end of November. I'm not that confident it will be the final version, because I can see me needing another week or so to finish off the remaining interior illustrations. But we are close to the final pdf.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Well, with photoshop, you can use 'layers' to paint individual things, like painting Surtur and his Heat Ray separately. Then you can touch them up without affecting the other layers, and layer them however you want. (Like if you decide the heat ray needs to be more transparent, you can adjust that) If you get the chance to play around with it and get used to it, even the basic functions of photoshop might be useful.

Otherwise, its great to hear that cover is almost done. The print bestiary cover was so awesome, I can't wait to see this one.

 

[Alzrius]

That's not what the current wording for Automatic Metapsionic Capacity says, which lets you spontaneous augment powers with metapsionic feats without having to expend focus.

My friend, I wrote that feat, so I know what it says.

The specific wording, found here, says, "When you select this feat, you gain +2 free power points which may only be applied to the cost of manifesting powers with metapsionic feats." This is pretty clear in that it gives you free points which may only be applied to the cost of metapsionic feats; you still need to expressly obey the wording of metapsionic feats themselves, and so far they all begin with "To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus."

Further, I wanted to avoid any idea that the feat let you bypass the need for psionic focus (to address the very balance issue you're bringing up), which is why it also has the following example (emphasis mine): "e.g. A 26th-level Psion with x2 Automatic Metapsionic Capacity feats could maximize an empowered delayed energy burst that had been augmented for an additional 5 power points, paying a total cost of 14 power points instead of 18 (and presuming he had taken Epic Psionic Focus at least twice also)."

EDIT: It is worth noting that both Automatic Metapsionic Capacity and Metapsionic Freedom appear in Dreamscarred Press's book High Psionics: Psionic Feats, with wording that has been slightly edited for clarity, but still maintains the exact rules mentioned above. This was done by me in conjunction with the book's editor, and with U_K's blessing that the feats be used there.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

My friend, I wrote that feat, so I know what it says.

The specific wording, found here, says, "When you select this feat, you gain +2 free power points which may only be applied to the cost of manifesting powers with metapsionic feats." This is pretty clear in that it gives you free points which may only be applied to the cost of metapsionic feats; you still need to expressly obey the wording of metapsionic feats themselves, and so far they all begin with "To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus."

Further, I wanted to avoid any idea that the feat let you bypass the need for psionic focus (to address the very balance issue you're bringing up), which is why it also has the following example (emphasis mine): "e.g. A 26th-level Psion with x2 Automatic Metapsionic Capacity feats could maximize an empowered delayed energy burst that had been augmented for an additional 5 power points, paying a total cost of 14 power points instead of 18 (and presuming he had taken Epic Psionic Focus at least twice also)."

EDIT: It is worth noting that both Automatic Metapsionic Capacity and Metapsionic Freedom appear in Dreamscarred Press's book High Psionics: Psionic Feats, with wording that has been slightly edited for clarity, but still maintains the exact rules mentioned above. This was done by me in conjunction with the book's editor, and with U_K's blessing that the feats be used there.

Okay, trying again after this clarification on Automatic Metapsionic Capacity and Metapsionic Freedom.

100th-level psion with Psionic Meditation, Epic Psionic Focus ×24, Automatic Metapsionic Capacity ×25, and Metapsionic Freedom (versus a 100th-level wizard with Automatic Metamagic Capacity ×50 and Metamagic Freedom). Remember that the psion can gain psionic focus as a move action, and gets an extra 24 foci for the purpose of applying metapsionic feats. The psion can cast an empowered ×23 maximized energy ray (cold or fire) augmented to 100 power points for 8750 cold or fire damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no saving throw. He could instead cast an empowered ×23 maximized crystal shard augmented to 100 power points for 7500 piercing damage on a successful ranged touch attack with no saving throw or power/spell resistance.

Now that 100th-level psion just spent what would've been 150 power points for a single power, getting around the normal limit of 100 power points through Automatic Metapsionic Capacity. You could always rule that he could only spend up to 100 total power points including AMC, but you'll see that even that's not enough to tone his damage down to the level of a 100th-level wizard with AMC ×50.

Empowered ×23 maximized energy ray (cold or fire) augmented to 50 power points = 4375 fire or cold damage
Empowered ×23 maximized crystal shard augmented to 50 power points = 3750 piercing damage

There's still a major gap between the single-round damage potential of the psion and the wizard.

 

[dante58701]

Not really when you consider that a Wizard can cast more actual spells, than a psion can manifest powers. While psions do have more flexibility, they generally deplete their reserve much faster than a wizard.

This is why I play manifester/spellcaster combos. It allows for more flexibility and the endurance of a spellcaster.

Additionally, psionic powers have another inherent flaw...they can be more easily countered, by other psionic powers that almost completely negate them, yet have little or no effect on magic.

 

[Pssthpok]

There's still a major gap between the single-round damage potential of the psion and the wizard.

Yet more proof that psionics suck.