NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Alzrius]

By the by, U_K, the guys over at Distant Horizons Games have released Eclipse: The Codex Persona as a free download. I strongly recommend checking it out, as it's section on epic spells is not to be missed. It treats them like normal spells, with just increased spell levels, all the way up to twenty-fourth level! That alone makes it worth a glance, and it's got so much more!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Hey hey, UK!

Last day in November... *looks at watch*

Not gonna have an update will ya?

Well I am off work until Wednesday Night so I thought I would exploit that time and update on Wednesday.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dante!

*Dante's brain grinds to a halt at the illogical glory of it all*

- Don't you mean...they do not retain alignment subtypes?

As written it hurts my head to look at it.

Nor do they dont? WTF...ROTFLMFAO!!! It's a classic!!!

We have Krusty, Super Krusty, and now...the new BIZARRO KRUSTY!!!

Does this lack of subtype prevent them from taking classes or abilities that are alignment-based? What if...you are a demon...and you gain...Apostasy? Do you suddenly stop being a demon? Some things specifically require alignment and alignment subtypes...or do these things no longer apply so such creatures. Can a being with Apostasy have...for example...both the Angel subtype and the Daemon subtype? As could be the case with half-breeds. Or is apostasy intended only for neutral beings?

Demon is a race, not an alignment subtype.

Chaotic is an alignment subtype, as is Evil, but demon is not.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Alzrius dude!

By the by, U_K, the guys over at Distant Horizons Games have released Eclipse: The Codex Persona as a free download. I strongly recommend checking it out, as it's section on epic spells is not to be missed. It treats them like normal spells, with just increased spell levels, all the way up to twenty-fourth level! That alone makes it worth a glance, and it's got so much more!

Sounds cool, I'l try and check it out over the weekend. Thanks!

 

[Pssthpok]

Hiya mate!



Well I am off work until Wednesday Night so I thought I would exploit that time and update on Wednesday.

Sounds great. I haven't been eager to check ENWorld in some time.

 

[dante58701]

Demon is a race, not an alignment subtype.

Chaotic is an alignment subtype, as is Evil, but demon is not.

ROTFLMFAO...didn't we have this argument a while back? I said that outsiders were races (Demons being a type of outsider (or subtype as it were)...much as Elves are a subtype of Humanoid). You stated that Outsiders were not races. This logic flies right in the face of your earlier statements.

Allow me to explain how. Although, yes...type does not necessarily indicate race, it certainly does in the case of outsiders as there are various RACES (Angels, Daemons, Demons, Devils, Ect.) of outsiders, as you yourself have just indicated. Thus, certain abilities indicative of certain outsider races (Demon) and subraces (Vrock) are innately racial in nature.

This means that even should the divinity be stripped from such creatures, they should still maintain a measure of power. You can't have outsiders be "merely petitioners who have ascended and not a race" one moment and then "races" the next. This is completely contradictory and completely illogical.

Not that that was the point of my question anyways.

Have you completely forgotten that you made alignment subtypes a mandatory prerequisite for the Angel, Demon, ect. subtypes? This was the point of my question. What does Apostasy do and how does it function (Specifically) in regard to "RACE" subtypes, when alignment is a prerequisite for "RACE" subtypes?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy dante mate!

ROTFLMFAO...didn't we have this argument a while back?

Given that we do nothing but argue thats hardly a revelation.

I said that outsiders were races (Demons being a type of outsider (or subtype as it were)...much as Elves are a subtype of Humanoid). You stated that Outsiders were not races. This logic flies right in the face of your earlier statements.

Outsiders are spirits, but you can have spirit races. Demons being one such example.

Outsider on its own is not a 'race'. Dragon is a race. Monstrous Humanoid is not a race.

Some types are races, some are not.

Allow me to explain how. Although, yes...type does not necessarily indicate race, it certainly does in the case of outsiders as there are various RACES (Angels, Daemons, Demons, Devils, Ect.) of outsiders, as you yourself have just indicated. Thus, certain abilities indicative of certain outsider races (Demon) and subraces (Vrock) are innately racial in nature.

This means that even should the divinity be stripped from such creatures, they should still maintain a measure of power. You can't have outsiders be "merely petitioners who have ascended and not a race" one moment and then "races" the next. This is completely contradictory and completely illogical.

Outsiders (my definition) are spirits. Spirits are made from Quintessence. So when you strip away the quintessence there should be nothing left.

Not that that was the point of my question anyways.

Have you completely forgotten that you made alignment subtypes a mandatory prerequisite for the Angel, Demon, ect. subtypes? This was the point of my question. What does Apostasy do and how does it function (Specifically) in regard to "RACE" subtypes, when alignment is a prerequisite for "RACE" subtypes?

Apostasy makes alignment irrelevant.

If you need to be a demon to fulfill a prereq, then you still need to be a demon.

If you need to be chaotic evil to fulfill a prereq, with Apostasy, you don't need to be chaotic evil.

 

[dante58701]

Ok, that answers all those questions quite nicely, but what about those extra abilities that outsiders are getting for free...like all the extra heads and arms that a Hecaton gets...or the various dance of ruin, spore, ect. abilities that a Vrock has. You have indicated that these do not count against their divine abilities, nor do their size increases. How exactly do all these extra FREEBIE abilities actually figure in? Shouldn't they be force to pay for them like any other deity...or do we just start tacking on whatever abilities we want our outsiders to have without paying for them at all? The Hecaton cannot be created from scratch using the rules as is. It has the Extra Head ability 49 times and Extra Arms ability 49 times. How do you account for this when it is a mere quasi-deity? Do they receive 98 bonus divine abilities? What Portfolios do the Hecaton have? Or is that the price they pay for their Arms and Heads...no Portfolios? If that were the case, then they could have up to 28 additional divine abilities (+16 (no artifacts), +12 (no portfolios)), although that still wouldn't be enough.

Egad, I forgot a question...do you keep your alignment and alignment subtypes when you take Apostasy. I know that alignment is made irrelevant, but do you keep them?

Example...Neutral Evil vampire with the Evil Portfolio acquires Apostasy...is he still an evil god? Or is he just playing at being evil?

I know, I know, lot's of questions...but I keep getting asked these questions by my own DM

 

[Alzrius]

Third time's the charm...

U_K, I don't know if someone brought this up before, but I wanted to mention this to you.

If a character with the Equilibrium transcendental ability (all of your ability scores equal your highest ability score) later gained the Infinite [Ability Score] omnific ability, would that mean that all of his ability scores are then considered to be infinite?

Also, on second inspection, shouldn't the latter omnific ability have a line mentioning that it can be taken more than once, but each time it's taken it must be applied to a different ability score?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Alzrius mate!

Third time's the charm...

Terribly sorry dude.

U_K, I don't know if someone brought this up before, but I wanted to mention this to you.

If a character with the Equilibrium transcendental ability (all of your ability scores equal your highest ability score) later gained the Infinite [Ability Score] omnific ability, would that mean that all of his ability scores are then considered to be infinite?

I think the only way to make this work is to not allow them to stack.

Also, on second inspection, shouldn't the latter omnific ability have a line mentioning that it can be taken more than once, but each time it's taken it must be applied to a different ability score?

Indeed, thanks for that.