NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[jedrious]

Considering WOTC latest splat books, I don't really consider most of their "official material" to be "official material". Just because a designer throws a lot of garbage out there for the public to peruse and waste money on, doesn't mean that material was really worth anything. While WOTC has done some excellent work on some psionic things, they really kinda put psionics on the back burner and shuffled out as much splat material as they could when their coffers began to run low and they started to run out of ideas.

Besides, psionic Portfolios, if they were to exist, should reflect the CORE PSIONIC CLASSES, rather than SECONDARY OR PRESTIGE CLASSES. Neither of which are appropriate in considerations for a Portfolio so comprehensive as PSIONICS.

First off: quit putting words in my mouth
Second: excluding something that you don't like from my game is nowhere near your decision
Third: my mention of the Ardent and Divine Mind were quite obviously in response to your belief that a psionic deity shouldn't have clerics casting divine magic
Fourth: you can't have it both ways either there's a general portfolio covering all psionics or one for each including for those you personally don't like

 

[dante58701]

so we all have to be dictated by your likes and dislikes then

it is much better from a developer's point of view to design knowing that those classes exist as oppossed to making those that do use them to choose between the project you're developing and using official material

First off, I'm not putting words in your mouth. You as noted above stated..."official material" ...that is a direct quote from you.

Second...this isn't about you or your game so stop making this personal. It's about the PSIONICS PORTFOLIO. Making a PSIONICS PORTFOLIO should have little to nothing to do with JUST ONE PERSON'S CAMPAIGN....which is essentially what you are doing.

The PSIONICS PORTFOLIO needs to be a GENERIC PORTFOLIO that EVERYONE can use. Not just you and your campaign buddies.

Third...nothing is OBVIOUS about ARDENT MINDS, except that they suck. ARDENT MINDS are not CLERICS and thus not a valid point at all. They aren't even CORE MATERIAL, which is pretty much what Krusty has been sticking to.

Fourth...A TRULY GENERIC PSIONICS PORTFOLIO would be TELEPATHY, as that is the CORE of all PSIONICS. It is about the powers of the MIND, not about turning people into CRYSTAL GOLEMS or whatever.

Fifthly...please grow up. I didn't attack you. I was merely stating my own opinions, not ripping into your ego. So please, please, please, tone down the sarcasm and thinly veiled insults. I really don't like it.

 

[dante58701]

Moved...

 

[jedrious]

First off, I'm not putting words in your mouth. You as noted above stated..."official material" ...that is a direct quote from you.

an honest mistake from you, my telling you to not put words in my mouth had nothing to do with "Official Material" it had to do with you insinuating that I wanted the Portfolio to showcase Psionics outside of the XPH

Second...this isn't about you or your game so stop making this personal. It's about the PSIONICS PORTFOLIO. Making a PSIONICS PORTFOLIO should have little to nothing to do with JUST ONE PERSON'S CAMPAIGN....which is essentially what you are doing.

The PSIONICS PORTFOLIO needs to be a GENERIC PORTFOLIO that EVERYONE can use. Not just you and your campaign buddies.

allow me to revise my statement, "Your likes and dislikes should not dictate the content in anyone's game in which you are not the Dungeon Master"

Third...nothing is OBVIOUS about ARDENT MINDS, except that they suck. ARDENT MINDS are not CLERICS and thus not a valid point at all. They aren't even CORE MATERIAL, which is pretty much what Krusty has been sticking to.

Once again putting words in my mouth, you really should learn to stop that, again that's your opinion, you expressed a concern about Psionics Deities having Clerics and I presented a clearly defined alternative, it's not my fault that you don't like them

Fourth...A TRULY GENERIC PSIONICS PORTFOLIO would be TELEPATHY, as that is the CORE of all PSIONICS. It is about the powers of the MIND, not about turning people into CRYSTAL GOLEMS or whatever.

once again your opinion, telepathy comprises exactly 1/6 of psionics, to make the general Psionics Portfolio showcase exclusively them is equivalent to having the Magic Portfolio showcase only the Evocation school, there is a clear and present association between Psionics and Crystals in every official publication on Psionics (even if you only believe that the Core book for Psionics the XPH, should be considered).

You obviously have an issue with how WotC has implemented Psionics, again not my problem for agreeing with the implementation, perhaps if you don't like it you should put the effort in and publish your own ruleset

Fifthly...please grow up. I didn't attack you. I was merely stating my own opinions, not ripping into your ego. So please, please, please, tone down the sarcasm and thinly veiled insults. I really don't like it.

You attacked my work, my work is an extension of myself, therefore an attack on my work is an attack on me, and the fact that you use your own opinions and preferences as oppossed to hard evidence is an insult, constructive criticism is one thing and to be expected, ranting and raving about how my work doesn't express your idea of Psionics is not

 

[dante58701]

an honest mistake from you, my telling you to not put words in my mouth had nothing to do with "Official Material" it had to do with you insinuating that I wanted the Portfolio to showcase Psionics outside of the XPH

Fair enough...you have a point here. I mistook something you said. Easy enough to do.

allow me to revise my statement, "Your likes and dislikes should not dictate the content in anyone's game in which you are not the Dungeon Master"

I'm not trying to dictate anything, now ur putting words in my mouth. I merely stating that a Portfolio should be something everyone can use.

Once again putting words in my mouth, you really should learn to stop that, again that's your opinion, you expressed a concern about Psionics Deities having Clerics and I presented a clearly defined alternative, it's not my fault that you don't like them

You weren't really explaining yourself to well through all that fuming.

once again your opinion, telepathy comprises exactly 1/6 of psionics, to make the general Psionics Portfolio showcase exclusively them is equivalent to having the Magic Portfolio showcase only the Evocation school, there is a clear and present association between Psionics and Crystals in every official publication on Psionics (even if you only believe that the Core book for Psionics the XPH, should be considered).

Not opinion, classical and historical fact when you look at the history of mentalism and psionics in general. It's also not my fault everyone has gone CRYSTAL HAPPY. Crystals are crystals and not everyone likes them, nor would most psions want to be one. It's just nonsensical to be restrained by a physical form when you delve in to the powers of the mind. Crystals are typically amplifiers or just WOTC going insane again.

You obviously have an issue with how WotC has implemented Psionics, again not my problem for agreeing with the implementation, perhaps if you don't like it you should put the effort in and publish your own ruleset

Everyone has an issue with how WOTC has implemented psionics. But CRYSTALS are optional not mandatory force fed flavor.

You attacked my work, my work is an extension of myself, therefore an attack on my work is an attack on me, and the fact that you use your own opinions and preferences as oppossed to hard evidence is an insult, constructive criticism is one thing and to be expected, ranting and raving about how my work doesn't express your idea of Psionics is not

This statement is all kinds of wrong. For the following reasons.

1. As anyone here knows...if you post your work...you had better be prepared to tolerate criticism. I liked some of your ideas, but the crystal happiness and lack of damage reduction made no sense at all. I didn't like it. It doesn't fit CORE psionics flavor. So...get over it.

2. Attacking someone's work...is not attacking them. It's an idea. Ideas are just that...ideas. If you don't like the consequences of having them and sharing them with people who dont like them...get over it. You are not your work anymore than I am a piece of paper with writing on it. Unless of course you are truly fascist. Which I don't know yet. From what I see...you are just taking things to personally.

3. It's not MY IDEA on psionics. It's the general consensus of nearly every science fiction writer since the psionics concept became popular. Essentially, before either of us were even born. Try reading some HP Lovecraft...he's just one of thousands of examples.

If we accepted everything WOTC did as CANON, we would have to toss out THE IMMORTAL'S HANDBOOK entirely. So quoting WOTC means nothing to me.

Also...if you can't come on a forum without expecting everyone to lovingly accept every single idea you have...then you are even stupider than me.

 

[jedrious]

Dante we obviously have a fundamental difference of opinion on essentially everythig I suggest you add me to your ignore list as you're already ignorng everything I say

 

[dante58701]

If anyone is ignoring anyone, it's you. You are completely ignoring me.

Also...I don't take orders from you. If you want to be ignored, you can do it yourself.

As for me, I'm perfectly content to discuss this as much as you want.

It's really simple.

1. Crystals suck.

2. Crystals without damage reduction suck even more.

3. Crystal demiplanes are cool.

4. Being made of crystal blows the big one.

I have a feeling you were just designing this Portfolio with your own character in mind, rather than spending time designing a GENERIC portfolio. Even if you weren't that's kinda how it looks.

 

[dante58701]

The psionics portfolio is close, except, for 5 details.

1. All your spell-like abilities become psi-like abilities? This should probably be...all your spells and spell-like abilities become psionic powers and spell-like abilities, because some individuals may use both spells and psionics.

Or it should be dropped altogether since psionics and magic aren't necessarily opposing forces, just two different ways of manipulating the cosmos.

Kinda like the difference between using open flame or steam to cook your food.

2. Becoming crystalline doesn't make much sense as psionics is all about transcending the limitations of the corporeal form. While a crystalline demi-plane makes sense, it doesn't make sense for you to be bound into physical. It would only make sense if your second portfolio was Mountain.

3. While divine [effects] are nice in their own way, it might be more appropriate to have force [effects] instead since it falls more in line with psionics anyways.

4. No damage reduction? WTF? Even most psionic monsters get damage reduction. Crystalline structures certainly get this as well. Although I'd make them incorporeal myself and strip them of their natural armor and damage reduction, since incorporeal beings don't get either normally.

5. The psi-like abilities are not really geared towards traditional mentalism (telepathy).

I'd probably make a separate Portfolio for each psionic discipline. It would make a lot more sense and add more variety. But ur definitely on the right track.

The psionic portfolios should oppose each other, rather than magic.

Telepathy (mind) would oppose psychometabolism (body).

Metacreativity (creation of new things) would oppose psychokinesis (manipulation of existing things).

Clairsentience (staying and learning) would oppose psychoportation (going and experiencing).


Telepathy...Cha draining attacks (makes victims more pliable).

Appearance:Incorporeality

Psychometabolism...Con draining attacks (makes victims weaker).

Appearance: Variable?

Metacreativity...Int draining attacks (makes victims less likely to think of new things to construct)

Appearance:Variable?

Psychokinesis...Str draining attacks (makes victims less able to move and lift things and resist your force effects)

Appearance: Pure Force.

Clairsentience...wis draining attacks (makes victims less able to understand what they are seeing)

Appearance: Floating Brain? "I know everything!!!"

Psychoportation...dex draining attacks (makes victims progressively slower and clumsier)

Appearance: Streamlined?

Perhaps the attacks can be blended...Force [effect] + Withering [Ability] [Effect] or some such nonsense. There is no set rule stating that it couldn't be some mixture.

This was my ranting and raving as you call it?

 

[dante58701]

More Important Things

Divine Sorcery...and Divine Wizardry...do you have to be a Sorcerer or a Wizard to take them? I'm sure this is the implication, but to be honest is doesn't really clarify that in the prerequisites. Also...Divine Wizardry is useless to anyone but a Sorcerer. If you want to know double your spells, you should just read more books and plunder more spellbooks.

Knowing a spell is not the same thing as memorizing it. Or did you mean...memorize?

I would go this route.

DIVINE SORCERY (SU)
You are a great sorcerer.
Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Sorcerer 37th, Spellcraft 40 Ranks.
Benefit: You know twice as many non-epic spells. You can also cast twice as many epic spells per day.
Special: This only applies to your sorcerer class.

DIVINE WIZARDRY (SU)
You are a great wizard.
Prerequisites: Epic Spellcasting, Spellcraft 40 Ranks, Wizard 37th.
Benefit: You can memorize twice as many non-epic spells per day. You can also memorize twice as many epic spells per day.
Special: This only applies to your wizard class.

Also

Divine Archivistry (Su)
You are a great archivist.
Prerequisites: Archivist 37th, Epic Spellcasting, Spellcraft 40 Ranks.
Benefit: You can memorize twice as many non-epic spells per day. You can also memorize twice as many epic spells per day.
Special: This only applies to your archivist class.

Divine Clericry (Su)
You are a great cleric.
Prerequisites: Cleric 37th, Epic Spellcasting, Spellcraft 40 Ranks.
Benefit: You receive twice as many non-epic spells per day. You also receive twice as many epic spells per day.
Special: This only applies to your cleric class.

Divine Eruditery (Su)
You are a great erudite.
Prerequisites: Epic Manifesting, Erudite 37th, Psicraft 40 Ranks.
Benefit: You can manifest twice as many non-epic unique powers per day. You can also manifest twice as many epic powers per day.
Special: This only applies to your erudite class.

Divine Psionry (Su)
You are a great psion.
Prerequisites: Epic Manifesting, Psicraft 40 Ranks, Psion 37th.
Benefit: You know twice as many non-epic powers. You can also manifest twice as many epic powers per day.
Special: This only applies to your psion class.

Here was my reasoning...

Epic Spellcasting is something Divine Casters/Manifesters would have anyways, in fact...if they don't they will already be in the hurt bag or well on their way.

Level 37th, because you would need to be 37th level to acquire those ranks in psicraft/spellcraft anyway. This would encourage, though not require, single-class casters/manifesters, helping towards overall game balance.

Divine Nescience of course would render these requirements all obsolete.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Dante, yet again you appear at the forefront of another argument, yet again you don't seem to be able to control the words you type, yet again you insult people unnecessarily.

Instead of a rational discussion which may have helped me out (since my own Psionics experience is limited) you turned it into a SHOUTING match.

Please vacate the premises for a week or two until you cool down, and don't force my hand.