NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[Pssthpok]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but UK's epic stuff breaks rather easily... at least it does under practical game-play. I saw a 30th-level hero deity one-round a Hecatoncheires using nothing more than SRD and IHB. The man has good ideas, but under-cooked execution (thanks to insisting that he alone do the work rather than share the thunder with a design team; a flaw that will bring his entire effort down around him, as we're already seeing) and terrible consistency (thanks again to his inability to work with others; I mean... when's the last time you paid for a book not knowing that it wasn't even typed or fully thought-out?). All of which leads to a neat-looking set of immortal rules (eventually), but ones that have had little to no playtesting (certainly no documented playtesting) and egregious mechanical loopholes.

Me, I'm looking forward to 4th; I hope it fixes the class-to-class imbalances we saw in 3.x and I plan on only using finished products for any deities for whom I absolutely need stats.

 

[dante58701]

That would never happen in a campaign where a Krustyfied Hecatonchieres was set up against a hero-deity with 15-20 hit dice/character levels. Realistically speaking a Hecaton would stomp a hero-deity. I think someone was fudging dice and cheating.

 

[Pssthpok]

a) it would take UK about a month to stat up a "Krustyfied" Hec; and that's if he devoted every free moment to it. His rate of speed is disappointingly slow.

b) a hero-deity doesn't have to be 15-20 HD, just at least 15 HD; the 30th-level fighter hero-deity is thus not a 'cheat' or a liar, as you propose, just one who came into divinity late in their career or who hasn't raked in enough QP to go beyond that rank.

c) I challenge you to build such a being and not be able to one-round the ELH Hec, which was the example (not some massively-advanced Hec designed solely to support your fallacious claims that I am a 'cheat'); use only the SRD and the IHB: 30th-level Core fighter Hero-deity. Having a x7 crit modifier with Uncanny Power Attack makes for a heavy-hitter.

 

[dante58701]

Obviously is was ELH and therein lies your problem. That is cheating. That's like pitting an 3.5 MM Pit Fiend up against a IH Pit Fiend. I see HUGE balance issues with that already. You are conflicting two completely different systems instead of combining them.

 

[Pssthpok]

:\

It's... "cheating" to use monsters from the ELH?




Oh... that's right. You don't use dictionaries.

 

[dante58701]

It's cheating to use monster from the ELH and not apply Immortal's Handbook rules to them (which are vastly more powerful than ELH rules) and then use an Immortal's Handbook style 30 level Hero-Deity using Immortal's Handbook rules. A hero-deity that was no doubt min-maxed.

This is cheating. Especially since a fully statted Quasi-Deity Hecaton would no doubt be vastly more powerful than a crappy wussy little ELH Hecaton.

Especially when you consider that a Hecaton is purportedly a Cosmic Abomination which would make it the equivalent of a Greater Deity.

Especially so since they use nonmagical weapons. Further implying that a Hecaton is ill-equipped and in dire need of massive revisions.

Especially so since not using magical items would imply that they are to be given oodles of extra divine ability slots based on the premise that creatures not making use of magical weapons get more divine abilities to make up for this.

That Hecaton in my campaigns would be redesigned as an Entity (most of it's extra divine abilities going to extra heads and arms) and it would have vastly higher stats than those listed in the ELH, which (sad to say) was very sub par in comparison to the Immortal's Handbook.

If anything is broken, it's someone's DMing.

 

[Pssthpok]

He wasn't min-maxed anymore than any other fighter that's been played to 30th-level from 1st. If you have anymore derisive comments to make about the scenario, I hope someone quotes you, because you're going back on my ignore list.

 

[dante58701]

Good, I hope I stay there. Especially since you had previously stated that I was going to stay there anyways.

But one thing before you go, because obviously you aren't going to ignore me right away.

Min-maxing any character is bad roleplaying. Because by that point it becomes ROLLplaying, rather than ROLEplaying.

And as for derisive comments...I wasn't making derisive comments. I was just simply stating that it was cheating. It's not my fault you took it personally when someone pointed out the facts. Facts which you yourself pointed out in earlier text.

But I dont need to repeat myself. Everyone can simply read my earlier posts to note that whatever player was fighting an ELH Hecaton was obviously cheating by not fighting an Immortal's Handbook Hecaton when they were using an Immortal's Handbook character.

Krusty's system was not designed around the Abominations of the ELH, rather he REDESIGNED abominations. Improving upon their flawed and unbalanced designs from the ELH.

By using two different EPIC LEVEL systems whomever was playing that game was very much cheating.

To use a WEAK system for NPCs vs a POWERFUL system for PCs is like giving all the chocolate chips to one side of the cookie and not the other.

If you take those facts personally...it's really no fault of mine.

 

[WarDragon]

Min-maxing any character is bad roleplaying. Because by that point it becomes ROLLplaying, rather than ROLEplaying.

Don't be so freaking stupid.

Yes, I know this post is going to be moderated, and I don't care, because it's long past time somebody said it to him. Which is why everything of substance will be in my next post.

 

[WarDragon]

Dante, I take it you haven't heard of the Stormwind Fallacy? That's what you committed in your last post. Roleplaying and power-gaming are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, you ignored his comment that the character in question was not excessively min-maxed.

Furthermore, if a U_K hecatoncheries wound up more powerful than the ELH version, it would have a higher CR. The hero-deity in question would be ECL 50, which is the ELH Heca's CR. One of the two is off, and since one of them is the basis from which all Epic play is built, I'm betting it's the Krustian hero-deity.