NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[dante58701]

In my campaigns integrated levels come with animal companions and familiars, it's just that most creatures would opt to not waste their time with such potential liabilities. XP being hard to come by as it is.

I would never strip an integrated class of any of it's class features...that's just nonsensical and runs contrary to the text that has been issued forth by Krusty.

Sorry Krusty, but you made the rules, you should really try proofreading things if you want to lop off class abilities. You have been kinda slacking a bit in the proofreading department. =^.^=

Although I could never understand why anyone would rob integrated classes of their features anyways. These features are so trivial in terms of game balance that it does more to harm your ideas for immortal's than it does to help them.

Once again applying illogical limitations that serve no purpose other than to frustrate. You should really try to go forward with the options as you have in the past. Making things optional will save you a lot of grief in the future regarding the semantics of gaming rules.

No offense intended, just an observation you might want to take note of. People by nature LOVE options.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy adslahnit!

Is there any particular reason why not?

I crossreferenced all the Outsiders with integrated Sorcerer levels with all the Outsiders we see with familiars and the results came back negative.

Does this include the bonus feats for epic levels?

Yes.

Additionally, for integrated spellcaster levels, Caster Level is equivalent to HD, so a 60 HD Outsider could have the spellcasting abilities of a 30th level Sorcerer but would have Caster Level 60, correct?

Wrong. It would be Hit Dice plus Divine Rank.

However, don't epic spellcasting classes advance only their caster level and not their spells per day or spells known? Would that not mean that 30 integrated Sorcerer levels with Caster Level 60 would be the same as 60 integrated Sorcerer levels?

Mercucio (thanks dude) already answered this one. Remember that epic integrated levels means derived from the epic classes.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

I crossreferenced all the Outsiders with integrated Sorcerer levels with all the Outsiders we see with familiars and the results came back negative.

Well, you don't see any published Outsiders with any integrated levels other than those of spellcasting classes, do you?

Wrong. It would be Hit Dice plus Divine Rank.

So a DvR 48 First One with 240 Outsider HD and 120 integrated sorcerer levels would have Caster Level 288. How about if he "multiclasses" and takes 60 integrated sorcerer levels and 60 integrated cleric levels? Is his caster level still 288 (120 * 2 + 48), or is it 168 (60 * 2 + 48) for each? Can you even "multiclass" your integrated levels in the first place?

 

[dante58701]

There is no rule saying you can't and a lot of rules indicating that you can.

 

[Pssthpok]

Last time I checked, you can't "multiclass" with integrated class levels.

 

[dante58701]

Not so actually...

"Outsiders can only choose integrated class features from one class and
once set these can only be changed by wishes (it takes one wish to change 9
integrated class levels)." - Krusty

So...as you can see, you can multiclass integrated class levels.

You can only initially choose one class...but...by the specific wording here, you can change some of your integrated class levels via wishes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy!

Well, you don't see any published Outsiders with any integrated levels other than those of spellcasting classes, do you?

They are in the minority but there are a few.

I think a few monsters have Assassin and Rogue levels integrated in that way.

In 1st Edition the Modrons had Monk levels hardwired into them, not sure about 3rd Editions Modrons.

So a DvR 48 First One with 240 Outsider HD and 120 integrated sorcerer levels would have Caster Level 288. How about if he "multiclasses" and takes 60 integrated sorcerer levels and 60 integrated cleric levels? Is his caster level still 288 (120 * 2 + 48), or is it 168 (60 * 2 + 48) for each? Can you even "multiclass" your integrated levels in the first place?

His caster level is the same regardless of integrated classes.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

His caster level is the same regardless of integrated classes.

Wouldn't there be no reason for a 280 HD First One to multiclass his integrated class levels to Bard 20 / Cleric 20 / Druid 20 / Paladin 20 / Ranger 20 / Sorcerer 20 / Wizard 20? With a universal caster level of 328 and access to seven spell lists, he'll be outright superior to a 280 HD First One with 140 integrated Sorcerer levels.

 

[Pssthpok]

I'm pretty sure UK said something about multiclassing and integrated class levels in the threads. IIRC, the statement amounted to "no multiclassing" -- a sentiment with which I agree, as it is unheard of for outsiders to behave as multiclass characters.
Thus, despite dante's fallacious interpretation of non-existent text and provided I am recalling the subject completely, you cannot multiclass integrated class levels.

 

[mercucio]

I'm pretty sure UK said something about multiclassing and integrated class levels in the threads. IIRC, the statement amounted to "no multiclassing" -- a sentiment with which I agree, as it is unheard of for outsiders to behave as multiclass characters.
Thus, despite dante's fallacious interpretation of non-existent text and provided I am recalling the subject completely, you cannot multiclass integrated class levels.

Sorta. You can change 9 levels of integrated class levels with a wish. You are still limited, however, to base classes.