NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[dante58701]

Depends on what you mean by Full Progression.

=^.^= I rather like Maven and Omnicompetent, they are my two favorite esoteric abilities for mortals.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

apologies for being offline quite a bit these past few days I have a number of days off starting tonight, followed by a few days of work and then (at the start of November) I am off for about 20 days, followed by a reduced workload from then on. So I expect things to be moving forward with Ascension as soon as possible.

Hey adslahnit!

So just to be on the safe side, should Strike damage be multiplied by 4 and then spread out across all attacks? So a 120 HD Elder One with Perfect Cosmic Strike would have a damage allowance of +120d20. If he had only four attacks, he'd get +30d20 to each one. If he had twelve attacks from triple-wielding, he'd get +10d20 to each. If he had fifteen attacks from triple-wielding weapons of speed, he'd get +8d20 to each. If he had THIRTY attacks from triple-wielding flashing weapons of speed (flashing effectively doubles your attacks on average), he'd get +4d20 to each. How does that sound?

Balanced.

That would certainly tip the damage in favor of monks... if it weren't for the fact that you can't get 2x Power Attack ratio for unarmed strikes (unless you take the Hammer Fist feat from that one WotC sourcebook I forgot about). The Power Attack chain of abilities definitely makes two-handed weapons the way to go. Ultimate Power Attack with a two-handed weapon is -1 BAB for +20 damage, that's just too much to pass up.

There has to be some reason to play an epic monk.

Say, would you allow a monk to go three-weapon fighting by using his unarmed strikes for all three of his "weapon slots"? That gives you the potential for twelve unarmed strikes in a full attack, not even including Flurry. If not, then would the ability to do so be an epic feat or divine ability? I'd be perfect for "You Are Already Dead" Kenshiro.

The third attack would have to be a weapon, you can't juggle your own limbs. So you would have to meet the prereqs with a weapon. I'd like to see a monk with three nunchaku.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again!

...and thanks for the explanation Mercucio dude.

How do weapons from higher Progress Levels work within the artifact system? For example, let's say I wanted an immortal to dual-wield a pair of Smith & Wesson Model 500s (2d8 base damage in d20 Modern). They would be forged from orichalcum and fire orichalcum bullets, and since orichalcum weaponry confers a x12 base damage multiplier, they would each deal 24d8 or 20d10 base damage.

If you can manipulate orichalcum you ain't gonna be firing bullets, you are going to be firing nukes...or better.

Dual-wielding orichalcum hand crossbows would only give you a base damage of 12d4 or 5d10 damage. Dual-wielding orichalcum heavy crossbows is slightly more viable with a base damage of 12d10 damage, even with the -4 attack penalty (which is neglible at epic levels anyway). Either way, you'd still need to drop one to reload the other, even with the Instant Reload epic feat.

Progress Level equipment will not be so trite as "Made of Orichalcum". It will be new techs that do more damage for the same weight, not simply made from heavier materials.

EDIT: Also, how would you rate the Worm That Walk's discorporate ability?

I'd probably call it a low-end divine ability, since there are a multitude of ways to prevent it, especially at epic levels.

Safest to put it as a divine ability.

Sorry if there's an ability like it in Ascension that I'm not aware of.

Possibly, but even I can't remember them all offhand.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy!

considering he has the worm that walks template as a divine ability

I do?

does an outsider that gains a deific template via Paralelled gain portfolios?

Outsiders should technically always have the divinity and portfolio templates hardwired into them, of course I'm not going back to rewrite all the outsiders in the monster manuals just so they conform exactly, but certainly thats the intention.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

What's the current rule in Ascension for adding monster HD instead of class levels? Adding, say, Dragon or Outsider HD will give you full BAB and save progression instead of epic BAB and epic save progression. Sure, you'll get less class features and feats (and by extension esoteric abilities), but I'm sure melee-fighter types will enjoy the full BAB. Full good save progression is very nice too.

Both Dragon and Outsider HD get lots of skill points though (6 + Int and 8 + Int respectively), and they'll be going to waste with things like Omnicompetent and Maven. Dragon's d12 HD is going to be wasted too with the divine HD size upgrades.

When adding outsider HD (in place of class levels) you gain integrated class levels equal to half your HD.

So a 20 HD Outsider might have the spellcasting abilities of a 10th-level sorcerer, etc.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

When adding outsider HD (in place of class levels) you gain integrated class levels equal to half your HD.

So a 20 HD Outsider might have the spellcasting abilities of a 10th-level sorcerer, etc.

Do integrated sorcerer/wizard levels come with the familiar?

Also, are bonus feats included with integrated class levels? So would a 40 HD outsider with 20 integrated wizard levels gain Scribe Scroll and 4 other bonus feats? Or would a 40 HD outsider with 20 integrated fighter levels gain 11 bonus fighter feats?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy there!

Do integrated sorcerer/wizard levels come with the familiar?

No.

Also, are bonus feats included with integrated class levels? So would a 40 HD outsider with 20 integrated wizard levels gain Scribe Scroll and 4 other bonus feats? Or would a 40 HD outsider with 20 integrated fighter levels gain 11 bonus fighter feats?

Yes.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

No.

Is there any particular reason why not?

Yes.

Does this include the bonus feats for epic levels?

Additionally, for integrated spellcaster levels, Caster Level is equivalent to HD, so a 60 HD Outsider could have the spellcasting abilities of a 30th level Sorcerer but would have Caster Level 60, correct? However, don't epic spellcasting classes advance only their caster level and not their spells per day or spells known? Would that not mean that 30 integrated Sorcerer levels with Caster Level 60 would be the same as 60 integrated Sorcerer levels?

 

[mercucio]

Is there any particular reason why not?
Does this include the bonus feats for epic levels?

Yes.

Additionally, for integrated spellcaster levels, Caster Level is equivalent to HD, so a 60 HD Outsider could have the spellcasting abilities of a 30th level Sorcerer but would have Caster Level 60, correct? However, don't epic spellcasting classes advance only their caster level and not their spells per day or spells known? Would that not mean that 30 integrated Sorcerer levels with Caster Level 60 would be the same as 60 integrated Sorcerer levels?

No, because a 60th level sorcerer has more bonus feats and a stronger familiar.

 

[EarthSeraphEdna]

No, because a 60th level sorcerer has more bonus feats and a stronger familiar.

I was talking about integrated sorcerer levels, not actual sorcerer levels. Having 30 integrated sorcerer levels with caster level 60 is just the same as having 60 integrated sorcerer levels with caster level 60. Since bonus epic feats are included in integrated levels, it's still better to have the latter than the former though.

Either way, it seems that integrated levels don't come with familiars or animal companions.