New player and even newer DM struggling with another player...

[Taed]

My 8-year-old son plays with me as DM (42) and others ranging from a mature 13-year-old, a bunch of 20 somethings, and a 35-year-old. He plays a Dragonborn Fighter, so the dumb brute thing is his character, but we've had to set him straight about not just killing everything. I even designed an encounter around it where he was falsely arrested by a bunch of armed guards, so had he fought back, he would have died on the spot. He did the right thing and went willingly (which then provided some key information pertaining to the adventure), but the goal was to "teach" some humility and thinking before acting. I knew how my son would react, so I could do something like that and get to the desired goal.

Perhaps you could work with the older brother for something similar. Maybe the local thieves' guild takes an interest in the naughty character, kidnaps him, and offers him death, a total stoppage of his criminal activities, or acceptance of a measured, unionized life of crime (giving you the opportunity to provide him outlets for his "crime" without disrupting the story).

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

Thanks for the help.

 

[the Jester]

Make sure everyone else has equal time. If he insists on spending his time trying to steal and bluff, that's fine; but then run the other players so that they get equal time, and when he inevitably pipes up to interrupt, explain that it's the rest of the group's turn, and hint that it's more fun for everyone when everyone is participating- in other words, working together.

 

[mmaranda]

Another thing you can do to help shift focus to the other players is when authorities come after him and he bluffs them.

Say "Ok a 33, that's great you spend the next 6 hours talking your way through the system. I'll come back to you later."

Then let everyone else do their thing. If the PCs decide to leave the town before that time is up then he has to pay a fine. No matter how good you are there is always going to be some bureaucrat that won't accept things unless the forms are filed.

Each time he does this the process takes longer as more and more people have to be involved. Maybe the local heralds start asking him questions as well. Anytime he leaves before getting everything straightened he has to spend money to take care of it. Eventually the lack of attention and the repetition will get boring.

 

[Jhaelen]

You are the Dungeon Master.

This. As soon as (one of) your players realize you let them get away with everything, they'll do whatever they want. It doesn't matter what age your players are. If they don't respect your authority, you've already lost.

Why did you allow a chaotic evil character in the first place?! Would you have allowed it if one of the older players had wanted to play one? If the answer is no, you've probably made a bad mistake right there.

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

The older brother was the DM for the first 6 session. His last act was telling his brother that it was okay to play as a chaotic evil. I took over the next week and didn't know it.

I haven't let him get away with murder and run wild. I am trying to keep him in line and a few players have helped but they are starting to lose patience.

I was more concerned the following scenario: You meet the town's local lord... (he interurpts) I roll a 30 to stealth, sneak behind him and roll a 32 to thievery to pick pocket him while the others distract him while talking. What do I find?[\i]

Getting over a 30 to thievery should yeild him something pretty decent. I am more concerned with his outrageously high rolls for a such a low level character.

 

[twilsemail]

The older brother was the DM for the first 6 session. His last act was telling his brother that it was okay to play as a chaotic evil. I took over the next week and didn't know it.

I haven't let him get away with murder and run wild. I am trying to keep him in line and a few players have helped but they are starting to lose patience.

You should probably re-establish with the kid that Evil =! PC in your game. His brother was DM and allowed the character. You're DM now and can disallow the character if it doens't mesh with the story that you and the other players want to tell.

I was more concerned the following scenario: You meet the town's local lord... (he interurpts) I roll a 30 to stealth, sneak behind him and roll a 32 to thievery to pick pocket him while the others distract him while talking. What do I find?

Answer: You find it exceptionally difficult to hide without cover/concealment.

After attempting to hide in thin air, you find guards stalking towards you and an angry Lord glaring at you.

Getting over a 30 to thievery should yeild him something pretty decent. I am more concerned with his outrageously high rolls for a such a low level character.

How is he consistantly rolling above a 30? You said level 3 right? Are you actually watching him roll every time?

5 (Trained) + 1 (1/2 lvl) + 5 (Dex) +2 (Racial) +2 (Background) = +15

He's consistantly rolling above 15, I call shenanigans.


Remember that it'd be opposed (or even just against passive for the Lord) Give your NPCs a decent insight/perception. Make the lord a retired Paladin around lvl 15 (you don't end up a lord by being some lvl 1 schmuck).

I'm just mostly repeating what others have said. Hand him consequences every time he does something off. Alternately suggest that the party leave him in an inn during the middle of the night at some point. I mean, he's evil, neh? They probably don't want him following them anyhow.

If he insists on being distruptive, then ask him to leave. If that loses you two players... well it leads to the other 3-4 guys at the table enjoying themselves more.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Ok I've read enough.

1. Have a chat with him before the session, preferably not in front of the other players, and tell him that you are running a game centred around heroes. Not villians. Ask him to try and be a Hero, tell him he will have plenty of chances to use stealth and thievery if he joins in with the others.

2. If he doesn't have someone who he has robbed realise the fact and send enough people to kill him quickly. Get it done and explain to him that crime doesn't pay.

It is brutal, but from what I have read it is the only real way to deal with it, other than just ignoring him (which wouldn't work for long).

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

How is he consistantly rolling above a 30? You said level 3 right? Are you actually watching him roll every time?

5 (Trained) + 1 (1/2 lvl) + 5 (Dex) +2 (Racial) +2 (Background) = +15

He's consistantly rolling above 15, I call shenanigans.

It isn't above 30 all the time but it is consistently above 25. I am pretty sure that he trained in either bluff or thievery, as well.

I have heard what I wanted. Thanks. All of you pretty much confirmed what I wanted to do. I just wanted to double check and get a little pep talk from all of you.

 

[the Jester]

I was more concerned the following scenario: You meet the town's local lord... (he interurpts) I roll a 30 to stealth, sneak behind him and roll a 32 to thievery to pick pocket him while the others distract him while talking. What do I find?

Try this instead:

"You meet the town's local lord..." (he interurpts) "I roll a 30 to stealth, sneak behind--"

"...I'll get to you in a second. The lord is seated on his throne; you're all in the center of the room, with about half a dozen guards--"

(interrupts again) "I rolled a 30--"

"WAIT YOUR TURN." (Finish description, then "Okay, you still want to try to sneak up on him?"

"Yeah, I rolled a 30--"

"Roll."

"I already-"

"You don't roll until it's your turn. Roll."

"Sigh. 28."

"Not bad. You start sliding around behind him, but since you're well lit and surrounded by soldiers, they cross their weapons and bar your way. 'Halt!' snarls the captain."

"I Bluff him. 25."

"He cuts you off as you start to speak. 'Silence! You have been summoned to listen, not speak!' He gives you a hard look. 'Mind your manners, dolt. I'll be watching you!'"

Mechanically, a couple of things:

1. It takes total cover or improved concealment to make a Stealth check.
2. The DC to Bluff someone should be modified by circumstance. While he may be able to bluff his way out of trouble a couple of times, when he keeps coming up as a suspect, the authorities are going to be much harder to dissuade.
3. If he is caught red-handed, a bluff may not be enough to save him, especially if he's stealing from a lord. Hell, he may not even have time to Bluff- I'd certainly call for an initiative check vs. any guards or whoever it is that noticed him before he had a chance to bluff; that's a standard action, yo.
4. To me, this is the most important thing about pcs like this: If his actions get him killed, let him die.