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New Race for Review - Minotaur (civilized)

redrover

First Post
All: Great exchanges.

Self: I promise to keep things shorter in future.

Verision: You are doing great on the gore discussion. You have points, you put them well, and Khaalis said everything I would have vis your comments to me. Above and beyond the call, dude.

Notes to Khaalis: I have more on your original feats (next post priority), some on your comments to me. This post priority is some errata on my Epic feat suggestions, so I’ll close there.

Epic Feat Errata:
On second look, most attribute requirements were way low. (Sorry, E-Feats were done last, at an hour no mortal should be up; text is wordy and ragged.) As in “New Math”, “the idea is the important thing”. Text cleanup comes later.

Epic Direction Sense: Busted to Heroic.
Extended comments next time. Summary: Your Heroic version fails to capture the essential minotaur--it’s a compass when it should be a GPS.

Typo: “an directional” => “a directional”

Direction Sense
Prerequisite: Minotaur. Perception 5.
Better than my first thought, IMO. A no-Perception-bonus minotaur is in at 10th via level advance. Hit the racial default with this. Sweet.

Implacable Nemesis: It looks like a power, but IMO the Divinity power feats in the PH are ample precedent. Your mileage may vary.

Mind Surge
Prerequisites: Minotaur, Iron Will or Battle Courage
Old attribute preqs. were clunky, since other Epic feat minimums are 17, and Wis/Con are not your minotaur core racial attributes. Change to Will Defense feats.

Superior Senses: Wording needs improvement, but I’m currently happy with the concept. Typo: announced => announces

Third Wind
Prerequisite: Minotaur. Constitution 17

Sundering Strike
Prerequisite: Strength 21, Axe Mastery, two-handed axe or hammer.​

That’s it for now.
 

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Khaalis

Adventurer
2 new versions uploaded.
* Modified layout.

Short version - 2 page PHB style writeup plus Racial Feats and a Paragon Path.

Full version includes the Homebrew Ecology.
 

redrover

First Post
Initial reactions on New Text: Looks really good! Like the Ecology and Cultural stuff a lot.

Gore Proficiency #2: Should be Gore Focus.

((Minor editing, examples from Physiology text:
*“and bestial to” sounds like it describes a behavior—maybe “and appear bestial to”
* you might check a dictionary on “anthropomorphic”
* “however,” => “, however,”
* “able of” is a bit awkward
* “a humans” => “a human”
* “connection…connection” is a bit repetitive
* general check—the plural of minotaur is “minotaurs” (at least in 4e) ))

SPECIFIC FEATS

On Mighty Swing: In my first post, I meant to offer no comment on the balance or lack of balance for Mighty Swing itself. My only point was that if rebalancing was necessary, then raising minimum attributes would be a dubious technique to achieve that goal.

I will comment on balance now. To my eye, the combat detail looks OK on paper and seems in line with other powers. Allowing for the +2 racial Strength bonus, the feat attribute requisite of 17 is in line with other feats. The only thing left on this one is actual playtesting, IMO.

On Ferocity: On comparing our campaign (which has no PC minotaurs) against this feat, I wonder whether this feat pulls its weight. Our fairly new group, six with two fighters, has had maybe a 9-10 significant combats so far, enough to hit 2nd level. Only one fighter has dropped – and only one time – in those fights. In our local play, if we had a minotaur, this feat would be used less often than the critical hit rules (the fighters have racked up three or four of those).

I really like the way this feat tracks on the “book” racial traits. But is it really worth 1/18th of the character’s feat potential, considering the other feats out there? Would anyone take a feat with such a low payoff rate?

I don’t know. Maybe this should go back to being a racial feat, and the player feat (Extreme Ferocity?) would be the same except it would be triggered by being bloodied? In our group, that one would have been triggered in almost every fight.


On Battle Courage: As I recall, the trait of fearlessness is consistently supported, not only in game material, but also in novels that deal with minotaur cultures. It’s been a while since I’ve read those works, but that’s what I remember of them. I agree with you that fearlessness seems to be a trained trait for humans.

I am reluctant to assume the same holds true for minotaurs without rechecking what source material is available.

If there was an attribute for bravery, and humans came in at 10, I would probably peg the minotaurs about 14-15.

On Direction Sense: On further reflection, after my last post, I think my critique of this feat is that, as it is currently written, there is just not enough crunch to allow consistent DM rulings. Take the following examples: Should the DM allow the feat to apply to these?

1. I want to know which way is north.
2. I have been teleported 500 miles. I want to go home.
3. I have been teleported to another plane. I want to go home.

4. I want to know where in the woods my enemy has fled.
5. I want to know where in the city my enemy has fled. (Does your answer change if the city is exceptionally maze-like?)
6. I want to get through this hedge maze in the quickest time.
7. I want to get through this dungeon maze in the quickest time.
8. I want to get through this magical force-wall maze in the quickest time.
9. The tunnel has collapsed behind me, which way is out? (Does your answer change if the framing is “I want to go home” as per #2?)

I think it would be hard to get five DMs to rule the same way on these questions with the feat written as it is now. A hard-line DM might allow only #1, while even the most generous judge might balk at #3 or #5.

The traditional essence of the minotaur’s innate direction sense is comprised of at least the following elements*:

1. You are never lost.
2. You can navigate any labyrinth with ease.
3. You are immune to maze spells

In addition, some sources make them very good at tracking.

(*Note: I can dig out specific examples of these traditions if you think it would be useful.)

On Minotaur Size: Ah! I hear you. I remember a similar incident with very skinny ogres some years ago. OK.

On Goring Charge bonus: OK, I figured this was a judgment call one way or the other. I guess the only question I have left here is do you know if WotC calls it this way when they do bonuses?

Next time: I will return to some ideas from my first post.
 

Khaalis

Adventurer
Thanks for the comments and editing. Its great to have new eyes look things over since it all blurs to me after staring at it all so long.

Corrections:
* “Gore Proficiency #2” to “Gore Focus”.
* Some grammar and clarifications in descriptive ecology text.

Quotes: “redrover”
On Ferocity:
I specifically removed this as a racial trait for exactly the reasons you list. It is something that is highly unlikely to come into play in game for a PC. This is really almost specifically monster trait. I included it as a racial feat, more for completeness, allowing a PC minotaur to choose to be more like their bestial kin if they so chose, rather than completely separating the ability and saying that no PC minotaur could ever have this. As for making an improved version at bloodied, I’m not sure how balanced that is since in 100% of the combats I’ve seen so far, the melee classes always hit bloodied in every combat, which means the minotaur would always get at least one free attack per encounter.

On Battle Courage:
The problem here is that the D&D minotaur doesn’t get the fearless traits. I did, however, want to include it based on ‘other’ minotaur ecology as you mention. However, I wanted to keep it within the guideline of what other races get in the way of bonuses to saving throws against a specific effect, which is the +5.

On Direction Sense:
Part of the problem here is that the PHB itself doesn’t go into mechanics for finding direction. All it says is that it falls under “Nature Knowledge”.
” Examples of Nature knowledge include determining cardinal directions or finding a path (common).”

So in this case, the feat applies to ”determining cardinal directions or finding a path (common).”. The PHB purposely leaves this to gbe 90% Dm adjudication rather than a hard set of mechanical rules.

In your examples, this feat only applies to Nature Knowledge, which in turn only really applies to #1.

From your summary of examples:
2. I have been teleported 500 miles. I want to go home.
If you have no idea what direction you teleported, direction sense isn’t going to help you. You first need to find out where you are in relation to home. Once you manage that, and know “home” lies in X direction, you can use your direction sense to keep going in a path in that direction.

3. I have been teleported to another plane. I want to go home.
Again, direction sense not going to help you here. Your direction sense isn’t a homing device. It simply helps you determine the cardinal directions, which may not even work on another plane since the cardinal directions may not even exist.

4. I want to know where in the woods my enemy has fled.
5. I want to know where in the city my enemy has fled. (Does your answer change if the city is exceptionally maze-like?)
Direction sense isn’t a scrying spell nor a psychic sense. It is also not “scent”.

6. I want to get through this hedge maze in the quickest time.
7. I want to get through this dungeon maze in the quickest time.
8. I want to get through this magical force-wall maze in the quickest time.
Again, no help. You can orient yourself and know what the cardinal directions are, but its not a scrying spell. It will probably help you navigate a maze easier if the maze is a skill challenge since I would rule that your sense of direction allows you to know when you are doubling back and you can better keep track of what direction you are moving in. If anything I’d allow this to either grant a bonus to a “maze” skill challenge roll or give you the option to use nature knowledge as a useful skill for the challenge.

9. The tunnel has collapsed behind me, which way is out? (Does your answer change if the framing is “I want to go home” as per #2?)
Again, it’s not a homing device. You don’t know where “home” or “out” are. In this scenario you don’t have a clue. The cave fell in behind you. What direction you have already headed no longer applies since you can’t trace your steps back. All you would know is what direction you were headed in currently.

The traditional essence of the minotaur’s innate direction sense is comprised of at least the following elements*:

1. You are never lost.
2. You can navigate any labyrinth with ease.
3. You are immune to maze spells

In addition, some sources make them very good at tracking.
#1 Is where the bonus to nature checks to determine direction comes from.
The problem here, as I see it, is that 4E doesn’t really have hard mechanics for any of this. Making them, also makes the minotaur too powerful. I had at one time had immunity to maze but it was felt to be worthless since there is only 1 player spell with this effect. Along the same lines, I think #2 is too powerful to allow a PC, not to mention it is more akin to a scrying ritual than a racial power.

On Goring Charge bonus: OK, I figured this was a judgment call one way or the other. I guess the only question I have left here is do you know if WotC calls it this way when they do bonuses?
Not quite sure what you mean here. Can you clarify?
 

redrover

First Post
Giant's Throw and Tipping

Short break in the action.

Had some thoughts about what I'd like to do if I played a minotaur, and finished with a couple feat ideas:

Giant’s Throw (Paragon)
Prerequisites: Minotaur, Str 17, Dex 15.
Effect: You are a specialized hurler. If you use a movement action to take a steady stance, you can use a standard action to hurl your missile. Your usual missile is a small boulder (range 10/20, 2d8, prof +2), which you throw with both hands. This represents a boulder of about 1 cubic foot, weighing 160 pounds.*

When you grab an opponent of human size or smaller with both hands, you can hurl them as if they were boulders (set and throw, but no proficiency bonus, as they are considered improvised missiles). Medium creatures can be hurled up to 5 squares, and Small creatures can be hurled up to 10 squares. Being hurled is an instantaneous forced move that does not trigger an opportunity attack against the hurled creature.

Hurled creatures land in the target square and suffer the equivalent of a 20-foot fall (and may use any relevant ability to escape damage, landing prone, and other effects). Flying creatures end in the target square, but suffer no fall and may choose to remain airborne. Hurled creatures deal damage to those they strike: Medium 1d8 + your Str bonus, Small 1d6 + your Str bonus.
Note: The DM may allow other bulky monstrous humanoids to take this feat as well, such as half-ogres, ogres, half-giants, ettins (two-headed orc/giant half-breeds), large stocky troll-kin, giant apes, yeti, and others.

*(for the geeks: 1 cu. ft. sandstone = 145 lb., marble = 160 lb., limestone = 163 lb., granite = 168 lb.)

Note: I wanted to get it all down in one place first. However, once you remove the more general combat rules from the feat, it compresses to:

Effect: You gain weapon proficiency with hurled boulders (range 10/20, 2d8, prof +2), which you throw with both hands.
Special: If you grab an opponent of human size or less, you can hurl them the same way, as an improvised missile (ranges 10 Small and 5 Large, respectively). Hurled creatures damage those they strike: Medium 1d8 + your Str bonus, Small 1d6 + your Str bonus.”


Tipping (Paragon)
Prerequisites: Minotaur, Str 19, Athletics, Weapon Focus (Unarmed).
Effect: You are a strong wrestler, skilled in bringing down creatures larger than yourself. At the beginning of any encounter, you may swap in the Tipping feat exploit to replace one of your At-Will powers. This exploit is especially effective against mounted opponents.

Tipping Feat Exploit
At-Will + Martial
Standard Melee Grab
Trigger: With both hands free, you successfully grab a vehicle or a Large creature and use a move action to set a steady stance.
Effect: You can tip a vehicle or Large creature as a standard action.

You gain a +2 feat bonus when you tip a stationary vehicle (an Athletics skill check).

When you tip a Large opponent, the opponent must make a successful saving throw or be knocked prone (this save has a penalty equal to your Strength bonus). An opponent you knock prone takes 1d6 +2 + your Str bonus damage. If you tip a rider’s mount, the rider is dismounted. Creatures that are swimming or flying cannot be tipped.
Special: At Epic level you can tip Huge opponents. Huge opponents add their Strength bonus to their saving throws.
Normal: For tipping vehicles, see table.
Note: The DM may allow other bulky, monstrous humanoids to take this feat, such as half-ogres, ogres, half-giants, ettins (the giant/orc halfbreed), large stocky troll-kin, giant apes, yeti, and others.

Code:
 [B] Vehicle                          Tipping DC[/B]
  Chariot or ox-cart                 20
  Small wagon or coach               25
  Large wagon                        30
(Sometimes, the cows tip back…)

(Quick, hide the elephants!)
 

Khaalis

Adventurer
I really like Giant's Throw but for me, it doesn't fit the minotaur. It does however fit the risi, so I am likely going to snag this for them.

Tipping, I'm no so sure about. I'm not keen on the mechanic of swapping an at-will ability as a per encounter choice. The only mechanic even similar is the wizard getting to select which Daily to have access to each day. I'm also not sure on the mechanics. Its sort of an attack, but not really an attack.

I also believe it should be "Melee 1" rather than "Melee Grab". I'll have to think on this one a bit.
 

redrover

First Post
On Ferocity: I guess we differ on this one then. I would have left it as a racial trait for consistency with the MM write-up, in full knowledge that it would rarely impact the game. Balance-wise it’s insignificant. In play, it’s notable and exciting on the rare occasions it has some effect, so why not? It’s flavor.

However, I highly recommend removing Ferocity as a feat as it currently reads.

Idea:
.How about tying this to the second wind. That is, the minotaur gets the free blow instead of the defensive bonuses. Example:

  • Extreme Ferocity: When you take your second wind, you can make a free melee attack against an opponent within reach. You do not receive the usual defensive bonuses for taking a second wind.
(That would put a cap on things mechanically, as it would only happen once per encounter unless some other special was in play.)
Conceptually, it replaces a defensive “pull back and regroup” effect with an offensive “adrenaline rush surge” effect. Might be a little closer to minotaur fighting style…

On Battle Courage:
Great point. Good call.

On Direction Sense:
Points well taken.
I have since gone back to some of the “civilized” minotaur material (principally DL Taladas) and found that your take on the civilized minotaurs is a lot closer than my memory of that material.

The classic minotaur direction trait, put into 3E terms, might have been conceptually defined as a find the path effect of infinite range and duration, but without the ability to walk the subject through specific actions and past traps the way the spell did.

We can always assume that this GPS ability was lost in the transition from the primitive to civilized state. (I don’t think the GPS is too powerful to give to players, but I do think it is too powerful to give to Heroic Tier characters.)

There have been direction-sensing abilities around for player characters ever since Tunnels & Trolls had a “Bump-of-Direction”,

At this point, the Direction Sense feat as written should not be confined exclusively to minotaurs, IMO. Any number of races or classes might have this feat in this form. From that standpoint, I would jack the Wisdom requirement to 15, and then give the minotaurs a special racial trait along these lines:


  • Natural Cunning, Preq. (Minotaur), (H): You gain a +2 racial bonus to Nature and Perception skill checks.
This gives leaves civilized minotaurs about where they were with respect to Direction Sense without making it too cheap for other races in general.

Re: Question List. Your response here clarifies that we are now talking apples and oranges. You are talking about a direction-sensing power that any fantasy hero might have. I’m talking about a power that is specific and exclusive to minotaurs. (Aside: I agree with you on Q4-5, which I included because minotaur keen senses and tracking are part of the traditional minotaur “package”, and some of this still appears in MM text as flavor.)

Maze Powers: This is so thematic for a minotaur that I am reluctant to let it go without at least one more suggested configuration:

Maze Intuition (Paragon)
Prerequisites: Minotaur, trained Perception.
Effect: You are immune to maze powers. Further, you can easily penetrate to the heart of a maze or labyrinth, or find its exit. When you are seeking one of these and stand at an intersection in a maze, using a minor action reveals the quickest way to your goal.
Special: Once you have walked a path in a maze or labyrinth, you can faultlessly retrace your steps.

(The special is simple to run. Ask the minotaur player the place in the maze he wants to return to, calculate the time/distance on the map. Barring complications, he gets there. Done.)

(IMO this feat could be pegged at either Heroic or Paragon Tier. Instant gratification reinforces the racial identity, but putting it off makes it a milestone achievement, which is also good. I prefer it as a full adult power, so have pegged it higher.)

On Goring Charge bonus: Clarifying not easy, too little sleep. Let’s just leave it at this: When I am give damage numbers, I will give basic numbers and expect the reader to add in other applicable modifiers. (That is, I’ll adopt your approach.)



  • Idea, Battle Lust
  • Prerequisite: Minotaur, Strength 17
  • Effect: When you bloody an opponent, you can take your second wind as a free action.
  • Special: You cannot use Battle Lust and Extreme Ferocity in the same round.
(For simplicity, the special might be dropped. The unorthodox tactic of blowing a second wind just to get a free shot that this configuration allows is interesting. The key question is, is it unbalancing? I think it’s close enough that playtesting is needed to resolve the issue.)

The "I was going to save these, but what the heck," dept.:

On Bull-Headed: Sure. As a consistency thing, penalties should be minimized. If this was a feat, the Diplomacy penalty should definitely go to -2. The bonuses, being racial, would stack with feat bonuses, and that is intentional and important.

Dimwitted: It looks painful (actually it is REALLY painful.) Nothing says it can’t be softened, though. To make it squishy:

1. Allow a maximum of only one (or two) trained intelligence-based skills from class selection if they are available. Other intelligence-based skills can be trained with the feat Skill Training.

2. Dump the Intuition penalty.

Presto! A rubber mallet instead of a sledgehammer! (*doink*)

Actually, this might be feat material, too, if it was the first part of, say:


  • Dimwitted Brute (Minotaur)(Heroic)
Along with, say, +1 hit point per level and Toughness, for example. The downside is that this would be an “only starting character” feat, and I don’t remember seeing too many of those in 4e, yet.

(The “+1/level hit point bonus” is very close to a +2 Con bonus, balance-wise; though you don’t get the Defense bonus, extra healing surge, or Endurance skill bump.)

Racial Trait Senses: Another way to come at the traditional keen senses of a minotaur is with a racial trait.


  • Keen Senses: When you choose a class, you can choose Perception as if it was a class skill.
This ensures that minotaur characters always have access to good perception if they want it. If they take a class that doesn’t support Perception that well, they can go with the race trait at the cost of being a little behind the curve in class skills. This trait does not alter the number of class skills chosen, which makes it balance-neutral in that respect.

Weapon Proficiencies: Consider swapping in “Flail” for “Greataxe.”

  • There is significant pre-4e support for the fail as a racial weapon.
  • 4e flails tend to be under-utilized as a weapon choice. (How many PCs have you seen actually take one?
  • The MM specifically gives a greataxe to the savage minotaur, so this would distance the civilized minotaur from that archetype.

Savage Minotaur: Want to ditch this archetype fast and easy? Change your page title to “Minotaur, Civilized” and you’re done.

And speaking of done…Ta, ta, for now!
 

pukunui

Legend
Hi Khaalis,

As we discussed in my thread, I like a lot of what you've done but not everything. I'm keeping the minotaur's stats at +2 Str / +2 Con (and I'm giving them a +1 Will defense like the eladrin and warforged). I want to de-emphasize the savage aspects of the race, so I'm going to make Ferocity a racial feat like you have, but I want to put greater emphasis on their physical toughness, so I'm giving them a +2 bonus to Endurance instead of Perception (but I'm leaving Nature there, since they're an outdoorsy, nomadic people). I'm also going to give them battleaxe/greataxe proficiency. I'm also keeping the oversized weapons thing.


I just had a question about the Strong Mind feat. You've got that it grants +5 to saving throws against powers that deal psychic damage. Are there any powers that deal psychic damage that allow for saving throws? If not, then there's not much point to this feat. I was thinking of doing a +5 vs charm, even though that causes the minotaur to step on the eladrin's toes even more.

Thoughts?
 

redrover

First Post
“New” Old Business

Giant’s Throw, Risi: Haven’t been there yet. As long as the critter is a monstrous humanoid, tops 7 feet or so, and has a torso on steroids and arms to match, it’s probably a decent fit. If the critter is giant-related, it’s an even better fit. While you are free to adapt to your home campaign, I would prefer this not be presented elsewhere as a one-race feat.

Tipping: To sort this one out, pretend the vehicle stuff doesn’t exist. That is a pure extension of the basic idea, more than a little Hulk-Hollywood, and it’s there to give the feat something to do if there’s not much cavalry in the campaign.

There was a slew of 3e feats that could be lumped together under the heading “Combat Stunts”. This feat comes from that tradition.

The key aspect of the feat is the anti-cavalry capability. It’s like the minotaur making himself an “oversized weapon”. Strategically, you swap it in if you expect cavalry in an encounter; it’s not all that useful otherwise.


On Design Theory: Just a few words on the philosophy of design before moving on (or back) to “Old” old business.

First, I think that to reject new game mechanic ideas simply because “it’s never been done that way before” ultimately stifles creativity. I don’t see how “it’s never been done” can be a useful criticism. (Challenging a direct contradiction of an established procedure is useful criticism, but I don’t see that being the case here.)

Second, in a superior game, pllay effect trumps design guidelines. For example, in 1e AD&D, the “design rule” for spells was that a spell's casting time was based on its spell level. Yet, we had the featherfall spell, which took no time to cast, thus “breaking” the rule. The ability to avoid going splat couldn’t function under the general rule, so the rule went away for one spell. Function trumps form = good design where the concept warrants..

A clear negative example of form trumping function exists. You can see what the “form” decision to set each spell at one and only one spell level and lock spells into one unique school/sphere did to the druid class between the 1e and 2e AD&D PH books. It wasn’t pretty.

Third, design “system” consistency as a concept is most useful in the early release stages of a design. It gets designers on the same page and brings everyone up to a basic consistency threshold when writing new rules. After all, you have to have good fundamentals. Once you have them, you can start breaking rules, and the best designers know how and when to break them. The rest of us, absent actual design documentation from WotC, have to muddle along with what we can glean and what we have learned, (especially when we don’t actually have a sheet of “cardinal rules” to look at).

“Old” Old Business
So let’s return to a design analysis of the Horn Slash feat. What does this configuration actually do?

Horn Slash
Prerequisite: Minotaur.
Benefit: You can use a move action to slash with your horns as a primary attack. You gore an adjacent opponent for 1d6 + 2 + Strength modifier damage.
First, it forces a choice. By converting a move action into an attack action, we create the following cases:

1. A moving Minotaur may attack with his weapon, or
2. A moving Minotaur may attack with his horns (as an offhand weapon), or
3. A stationary Minotaur may attack with his weapon and horns (re feat).

The tactical problem for the minotaur is he can’t get his best attack combination until he closes, but the best attack combination hinders him from closing.

However, the capability for a powerful melee combination forces a choice on the opponent as well.

1. Stay in close and risk getting hit twice, or
2. Keep moving tactically and give up some attack opportunities.

Decision points, tactical interplay, the possibility of great success are the hallmark of good tactical game rules.

It is true that multiple attacks tend to break the game system and should always be looked at with suspicion. That’s been in D&D history ever since the 1.5e AD&D Unearthed Arcana book gave fighters multiple blows per round. In 4e, it looks like the design team has been fairly draconian in enforcing a “one attack per creature per round” standard.

So the “old style” (since 1.5e, anyway) practice of adding additional attacks per round as a power upgrade is not going to find much traction in 4e design circles. So the feat as configured isn’t going to fly.

The concept of “stop-to-unload-a-bigger-hit” may not be usable here.

Tweak Concept 1, the Trigger:
Require the Horn Slash to be triggered by a successful weapon strike. This operates in the tradition of the old monster “rake” and “hug” special attacks. It is basically much like a critical hit: increased damage for a low percentage of actual combat hits. It varies mainly in degree/magnitude of damage dealt. Throw in an additional special condition (in this case “combat advantage”) and we have a revised version:

Horn Slash (Heroic)
Prerequisite: Minotaur.
Benefit: You have trained to use your horns more effectively in close combat. If you get a melee hit on an opponent against whom you have combat advantage, you deal +2 additional points of gore damage.
Special: At 11th level you deal +4 points of gore damage, at 21st level you deal +6 points of gore damage.

(The damage breakdown is +2 damage (horn proficiency), times the Tier.)

Side Note: Gore Proficiency and Gore Focus Feats
Both descriptions ignore the possibility that the minotaur can make other types of unarmed attacks (such as a fist, kick, grab). Maybe gore should specify a horn attack.

To Investigate: Has WotC assigned a default proficiency of +1 to “natural” attacks in the MM? Minotaur suggests so…are there others? (Must check…)

Tweak Concept 2, the Attack Penalty:
As an offhand/secondary/etc. attack, should we apply an attack penalty as a balancer? Over 20 years of play suggest that simple attack penalties alone can’t compensate for the damage increase dealt by a second attack. Specifically, a simple penalty that is balanced at low level breaks at high level. So by itself, a simple attack penalty won’t solve the problem, and maybe should not even be considered as a useful balancing tool anymore. Simple, accurate, balanced – we can have any two, it seems.

Tweak Concept 3, the Stunt:
In 3e, a common source of feats was the “stunt” combat move. I am not certain to what degree 4e embraces or rejects this approach to feats, but I think the fan creative urge to write stunt-feats makes rejection of this approach (as a “cardinal rule” of 4e design?) a somewhat risky decision at best (and I've seen no evidence yet that WotC has rejected the approach). I’m still looking the rules over on this one (*makes gleaning noises*).

Are there other tweaks? Undoubtedly. And that’s what forums are for.
It is in the exploration of options, and not in a brief “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” reaction that forums are at their most effective.

Rampaging Bull: This is another feat idea driven by concept. It puts the minotaur in “no heal self” mode as long as he decides to keep his attack bonuses. The player must make a critical calculation about how far he can go without getting clobbered. As the party starts to realize how this feat works, the healers (hopefully) should start feeding the minotaur support heals as he pushes forward. The feat concept specifically rewards party teamwork and aggressive play. (Would changing the name to remove the berserker image make a difference?)

Side Note: Want a rage/berserking ability? A core mechanic is in the MM Human berserker description (p163). I expect this to turn up in an official barbarian write-up. Maybe not exactly, but consistent in broad form.

“When you hit an enemy with your Gore weapon, an enemy adjacent to you takes damage equal to your STR modifier.”

I don’t understand where this comment is going. Do you mean if you hit someone with a gore (say as an offhand weapon attack), someone else takes damage as well? From what? The wording here seems a little vague.

That said, this is a static bonus that doesn’t seem to scale well. It may be overpowered at low levels, where a Str 20 deals 14% of a Kobold's (Dragonshield) hit points (36) on one hit, but it fades at 25th, where a Str 27 (max Str push) deals just a little more than 03% of a Swordwing’s hit points (234). Perhaps more refinement of this configuration may be in order.

(A complete analysis would look at attack chances as well, maybe work out the average damage points per round, and so forth, but it's late. Maybe later.)

Relentless Pursuit: The concept for this feat has the minotaur closing with the enemy in their turn. Its 4e function is specific: It facilitates penetration to the opposing strikers and controllers – and to a certain extent counters the ability of enemy Leaders to shift vulnerable allies out of harm’s way.

The other intended tactical twidge is that a party with push powers that move the enemy can, by so doing, advance their minotaur ally. Leveraged combinations appear core in 4e. The flipside is that this feat makes it easier for the minotaur to advance too far and end up as hamburger. Estimation, judgment, decision – elements of a good tactical game.

In this particular case, I’m not sure how the feat draft currently integrates with the Epic Tier powers of other classes, I haven’t been able to spend as much time with the Epic sections as I would like. I’m not certain this might not be better configured as a power. But good design is mutable. Let’s see where it goes.

That’s it for now.

Hold the Presses! Dept.
Note on the natural cunning idea: Stupid writer (moi) didn’t review Racial Traits (Skills) in your draft again before posting. My comment unnecessary and distracting.

(It does spark a thought that maybe an Athletics/Nature skill divide might spin off an alternative minotaur configuration – perhaps that Fey minotaur variant...)

Also, in several sections (notably “Re: Question List”) I used the word “power” when I should have used “feat”. Sorry about any confusion this caused.

Done…really.
 

Ginnel

Explorer
I've got to comment on this but mighty Blow is so good no two handed weapon fighter would not take it combine it with a polearm as well as polearm gamble and throw Heavy Blade oppurtunity on top you get

Push 1 square away you can now threaten that guy with polearm gamble if he approaches again and guess what when you attack him with the oppurtunity attack he gets pushed back again, I think this is the main reason tide of iron requires a shield, no reach and push at will abilities

Suggestion from myself just don't include it as is
 

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