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D&D 5E New Tasha's Blasters

Hohige

Explorer
With the arrival of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything a lot has changed.
We will then update the new blasters. Who can help?

All sorcerer's
With the new Sorcerer's Magical Guidance and the new half-feat skill expert, the sorcerer can invest in stealth casting without lose his spellcasting power.
Subtle Metamagic and Stealth work perfectly together.
This allows him to cast a buff with subtle spell without revealing himself, you remain hidden. Stealth casting becomes a standard for new optimizers.


ONE HIT K.O (Divine Soul Subclass)

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The Divine Soul Sorcerer Level 10 blasting.
Custom Lineage (+2 CHA and a feat)
Feats: Skill Expert (+1 CHA and Expertise on Stealth), Metamagic Adept (+2 SP and extra 2 metamagic choices), Lucky.
Metamagic: Seeking Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Twin Spell, Subtle and 12 Sorcery Points
Prepare Subtle 5th Spirit Shroud when you are hidden and attack with 5th Scorching Ray.
With Empower Spell 1d6 has average damage 4,25, 1d8 (5.5), 1d10 (6,25)

Action: Twinned Firebolt for 23,5 avg damage per target
Bonus Action: Empowered Quickened Scorching Ray : 19,5 avg damage (2d6 +2d8) per each Ray

If the attack fails, so Seeking Spell rerolls, if Seeking Spell fails, Lucky feat rerolls. (LOL)
Favored by the gods add +2d4 attack roll. (once)

Total damage: Twinned Firebolt for 47 damage and Scorching Ray 117 damage = 164 damage.

About Seeking Spell, you use Seeking spell if your attack fails
Empower Spell, you apply it if your dice rolls is bad.
Lucky feat, you apply it if the Seeking Spell also fails.

It deals fire and cold damage, It's insane thematically.
 
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Prepare Subtle 5th Spirit Shroud when you are hidden and attack with 5th Scorching Ray.
With Empower Spell 1d6 has average damage 4,25, 1d8 (5.5), 1d10 (6,25)
The subtle Spirit shroud almost certainly reveals your hiding position (a tornado of spirits is now flitting around you within 10' of you, even if you are invisible while hiding, that tends to give away your position, and trigger initiative).

In any event, on the round you attack with empowered scorching ray it's an initiative check before the attack, and you'll need to get within 10' to do this while hidden.

(Also, you've now used 2 x 5th level slots, and 2 sorcery points)

Action: Twinned Firebolt for 23,5 avg damage per target
Bonus Action: Empowered Quickened Scorching Ray : 19,5 avg damage (2d6 +2d8) per each Ray

And another 5th level slot, and 4 more SP.

3 x 5th level slots, 6 sorcery points used. You only have 2 x 5ths at this level, so you've had to create another 5th level slot with 7 sorcery points. Ill assume you've created the slot before the encounter and then blown a 2 x 1st level, and a 2nd level and 3rd level slot and converted them into SP to do this

You now have 6 SP left over, and have used both 5ths, 1 x 3rd, 1 x 2nd and 2 x 1st level slots.

If the attack fails, so Seeking Spell rerolls, if Seeking Spell fails, Lucky feat rerolls. (LOL)
Favored by the gods add +2d4 attack roll. (once)

Plus 2 SP for each seeking spell used. Lets assume you turn 2 hits into misses using this method.

4 more SP used.

Total damage: Twinned Firebolt for 47 damage and Scorching Ray 117 damage = 164 damage.

That's presuming the Monster didnt tear your face off before you deal the damage. The first Scorching ray triggers initiative (if the Spirit Shroud didnt already) giving 1-3 rounds for the monster to act (with one of those rounds likely being surprised) so exposing you two 0-2 rounds of actions from a monster 10' away from you.

After these three rounds, you are down all your 5ths, 1 x 3rd, 1 x 2nd and 2 x 1sts (and have only 2 SP remaining). Youll need 10 more spell levels to replensish those SP, so lets go with 2 x 4ths and a 2nd level slot.

Encounter over, one monster dead (and 5-6 more encounters to go that Adventuring day) and you're down:

2 x 5ths
2 x 4ths
2 x 2nds
2 x 1sts

From 3 rounds of combat.
 

I mean, if it's nova stuff we're interested in, at 10th level Gloomstalker-BM Franger does OK:

Ranger (Gloomstalker) 3 + Fighter 7 (Battlemaster)
Clineage Elf (+2 Dex) Sharpshooter, ASI +2 Dex, Elven accuracy (+1 Dex)
Expertise in Stealth (and Dex 20) = Stealth +13 plus invisibility in darkness to any creature using darkvision.
Archery and Superior technique (Precise strike) F/S.

Round 1 (from Stealth and Invisibility) - Hunters mark (bonus action), Action surge, take two attack actions and 6 Sharpshooter Longbow attacks at +6 (with tri-vantage) dealing 1d10+1d6 (hunters mark)+1d8 (sup dice)+15 damage on each hit (and an extra 1d8 damage on attacks 3 and 6 from Gloomstalker).

Presuming they all hit: 6d10+6d6+8d8+90.

Doesnt need to be in 10' range, and it all comes back on a Short rest.

Please keep the language “grandma-friendly”.
 
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Hohige

Explorer
I mean, if it's nova naughty word we're interested in, at 10th level Gloomstalker-BM Franger does OK:

Ranger (Gloomstalker) 3 + Fighter 7 (Battlemaster)
Clineage Elf (+2 Dex) Sharpshooter, ASI +2 Dex, Elven accuracy (+1 Dex)
Expertise in Stealth (and Dex 20) = Stealth +13 plus invisibility in darkness to any creature using darkvision.
Archery and Superior technique (Precise strike) F/S.

Round 1 (from Stealth and Invisibility) - Hunters mark (bonus action), Action surge, take two attack actions and 6 Sharpshooter Longbow attacks at +6 (with tri-vantage) dealing 1d10+1d6 (hunters mark)+1d8 (sup dice)+15 damage on each hit (and an extra 1d8 damage on attacks 3 and 6 from Gloomstalker).

Presuming they all hit: 6d10+6d6+8d8+90.

Doesnt need to be in 10' range, and it all comes back on a Short rest.
Very Weak:
1) It's multiclass
2) It's situational (Darkness)
3) Pretty easy to fail on Stealth Checks.
4) You expend ALL until a short rest.


You have 3 feats. You can't Expertise in Stealth.

Gloom Stalker:
If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type.

Your damage is: 6d8 (27 damage) + 6d6 (21) + 7d8 (31,5) + 90
If all hits 169,5.
If all hits.
But, +6 to hit vs 23 AC (18 AC + Shield Spell).
20% chance to hit = 32 damage.

If you are on Darkness (Situational)

You average damage is 80.


After nova. 32 damage per turn (If all hits). The Sorcerer can still blast the enemy for 1 minute. Dealing upcasted Schorching Ray for long time.
The sorcerer is clearly superior. And he is still a caster.

When you place a Multiclass and darkness situational, you have already lost. Go without Multiclass
 
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Hohige

Explorer
Stealth is hard to pull off in a party situation unless your whole party is geared around it, which generally does not happen in my experience.
Change your Mind. The Sorcerer uses Stealth as a defensive tatic. Casting at ranged or avoid be target while casting.
 


Shadowedeyes

Explorer
Change your Mind. The Sorcerer uses Stealth as a defensive tatic. Casting at ranged or avoid be target while casting.
The enemy just ends up targeting a different member of the party in that case, and the party will still often mess up any attempts at surprise. Plus, depending on the terrain you'll be going through a bunch of Greater Invisibility spells.
 

jgsugden

Legend
Something to consider when you think about this in terms of optimization: Avoiding being hit is not optimal. It is a waste.

Lets's say that you have 70 hps at 10th level. The only time hps matter is when you lose your last one. If I take 69 damage between long rests, it does not matter if my PC has 70 hps or 700 - I am just as well off.

If you are never attacked, and those attacks go to another PC, that is up to 69 points of damage that you're adding to the damage your allies take. Rather than using up your available hps as a resource, you're negating any use that they have as a damage sponge for the other PCs.

I'd much rather have a blaster in my party that spent resources on being able to negate damage or heal allies rather than making sure I was being hit more often.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Something to consider when you think about this in terms of optimization: Avoiding being hit is not optimal. It is a waste.

Lets's say that you have 70 hps at 10th level. The only time hps matter is when you lose your last one. If I take 69 damage between long rests, it does not matter if my PC has 70 hps or 700 - I am just as well off.

If you are never attacked, and those attacks go to another PC, that is up to 69 points of damage that you're adding to the damage your allies take. Rather than using up your available hps as a resource, you're negating any use that they have as a damage sponge for the other PCs.

I'd much rather have a blaster in my party that spent resources on being able to negate damage or heal allies rather than making sure I was being hit more often.
Then Divine Soul is ideal for your party. Extended Summon Celestial (Versatile summon) and Extended Aid (For nice damage sponge) is right choice for your party.
Twin Polymorph (300 HP damage sponge and 100 damage per turn), Twin Heal (140 healing) is always good.
He can do everything I mentioned (Your party loves you) and still be an Insane Blaster.
 
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jgsugden

Legend
You're running out of spells. A Divine Soul only gets 12 known spells at level 10 (including their bonus). You can't do everything as a sorcerer ... and if you're using all those high level slots and sps to blast, you're not using them to do the other things, so you're overusing slots as well.

I've played two sorcerers to high levels. One was a divine soul, the other a wild magic sorcerer. I've also played a number of multiclass sorcerers (mostly Gish builds that focus on quickened spells, bonus action spells and reaction spells). The biggest problem for a sorcerer, in my experience, is finding ways to be versatile so that you can contribute when your forte is not the immediate need.
 

Very Weak:
1) It's multiclass
2) It's situational (Darkness)
3) Pretty easy to fail on Stealth Checks.
4) You expend ALL until a short rest.


You have 3 feats. You can't Expertise in Stealth.

Gloom Stalker:
If you take the Attack action on that turn, you can make one additional weapon attack as part of that action. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8 damage of the weapon's damage type.

Your damage is: 6d8 (27 damage) + 6d6 (21) + 7d8 (31,5) + 90
If all hits 169,5.
If all hits.
But, +6 to hit vs 23 AC (18 AC + Shield Spell).
20% chance to hit = 32 damage.

If you are on Darkness (Situational)

You average damage is 80.


After nova. 32 damage per turn (If all hits). The Sorcerer can still blast the enemy for 1 minute. Dealing upcasted Schorching Ray for long time.
The sorcerer is clearly superior. And he is still a caster.

When you place a Multiclass and darkness situational, you have already lost. Go without Multiclass

Rangers have expertise in a skill now thanks to Tashas Canny feature. So I dont need a feat for expertise.

I get two extra attacks (I action surged and took the attack action twice on my turn) and both those attacks add an extra d8.

And how are you taking reactions to cast Shield when you're surprised (Stealth +13)?

I have six attacks at +6 dealing 1d8+1d6+15. Two of those attacks deal an extra 1d8. I also have 6 superiority dice (d8's) to spam on Precise strike (ensuring I hit) or on Menacing strike (to lay on an extra d8 damage and frighten). If I can fire from darkness, they're all at tri-vantage.

And no you cant upcast Scorching ray for a minute. After 3 rounds of doing it you're already out of SP and half your slots.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Sorcerers got much more powerful with Tasha's.

Stealth casting is not one of the meaningful things they got however. None of it holds up for real play. It's a highly situational thing they might do sometimes. But for the exact same reason the rogue got a new ability to compensate for their inability to adequately hide at range and attack that way for more than one round, the sorcerer isn't gaining much from stealth casting. Their position is constantly given away no matter how hard they are trying to stay hidden beyond that one attack. It just doesn't work as well in games as you think it will on paper.

As further proof of that: no other optimizers other than you are using it in their builds. It is not becoming a standard for optimizers. You seem to be the only person enamored with this concept. Which is fine. But I think you overplay it.
 

Hohige

Explorer
Rangers have expertise in a skill now thanks to Tashas Canny feature. So I dont need a feat for expertise.

I get two extra attacks (I action surged and took the attack action twice on my turn) and both those attacks add an extra d8.

And how are you taking reactions to cast Shield when you're surprised (Stealth +13)?

I have six attacks at +6 dealing 1d8+1d6+15. Two of those attacks deal an extra 1d8. I also have 6 superiority dice (d8's) to spam on Precise strike (ensuring I hit) or on Menacing strike (to lay on an extra d8 damage and frighten). If I can fire from darkness, they're all at tri-vantage.

And no you cant upcast Scorching ray for a minute. After 3 rounds of doing it you're already out of SP and half your slots.
No surprised, you casted a verbal spell (Hunters Mark).
Weak, multiclassing and Darkness situational. Pretty bad build
Go without Multiclassing :D
 
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Hohige

Explorer
Sorcerers got much more powerful with Tasha's.

Stealth casting is not one of the meaningful things they got however. None of it holds up for real play. It's a highly situational thing they might do sometimes. But for the exact same reason the rogue got a new ability to compensate for their inability to adequately hide at range and attack that way for more than one round, the sorcerer isn't gaining much from stealth casting. Their position is constantly given away no matter how hard they are trying to stay hidden beyond that one attack. It just doesn't work as well in games as you think it will on paper.

As further proof of that: no other optimizers other than you are using it in their builds. It is not becoming a standard for optimizers. You seem to be the only person enamored with this concept. Which is fine. But I think you overplay it.
I player a lot stealthy casting. 7 times to be precise.
It works amazing, you never die. Subtle Empowered Earth Eruption, Dominate Person, Mind Spike, Sleep is too Fun.
With Tasha's half feat and no race restriction, Its amazing easy to do without lose spellcasting power and Magical Guidance for skill monkey.
 
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