New UA Paladin and Bard.

Comments

cbwjm

I can add a custom title.
@Parmandur I can tell you get a kick out of looking for ways to fit the latest UA into MtG. Those white cards definitely fit the new paladin archetype.

I'm stealing the peerless might channel ability for my Might domain. If a heroic paladin can have it, so can my Might clerics, albeit, only for strength checks.
 

Parmandur

Legend
@Parmandur I can tell you get a kick out of looking for ways to fit the latest UA into MtG. Those white cards definitely fit the new paladin archetype.

I'm stealing the peerless might channel ability for my Might domain. If a heroic paladin can have it, so can my Might clerics, albeit, only for strength checks.
Oh, yeah, I'm having fun with this no matter what they are actually working on. It just strikes me that they have tested dozens of Subclasses in the past, but just now they strike me more as Magic Creatures rather than Classic D&D callbacks.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Oath of Vengeance granting advantage is almost the same amount of crits as the extended crit range, and a lot more hits. This is nice, but I wouldn't classify it as unbalanced or "extremely powerful".
Oath of vengeance is limited to a single creature. This isn't. That and the level 7 aura ability is better than the vengeance level 7 aura ability...
 

Undrave

Adventurer
Its actually Conjure Volley that I'm not seeing the logic for getting as an oath spell.
I think it might be a callback to Heracles' sixth labor?

You know, the Heroism Paladin concept really would make a great Fighter. I don't find any of those abilities all that supernatural/magical (I mean, except for the fact that some of them are fueled by Channel Divinity).
It's only 'supernatural/magical' because it's INTERESTING. You can't have INTERESTING features on a FIGHTER!

They could simply hang some of these effects on Action Surge and Second Wind.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I would suggest Leliana. After her epic come back in War of the Spark, she would be an interesting female voice for a setting guide, if a little darker than other possibilities like Nyssa and Chandra.
Honestly, given the history, I’d love a book primarily written by Liliana, with notes by Chandra and Nyssa. The guys can have a go, and um...ugh I can never recall her name but she is pretty dope the ghost killer lady...too lazy to google...oh well whatever she is in the gate watch.

I'll say Teferi or Jace Beleran, just because those characters actually studied. No offense but Chandra is more likely to burn a book than write one.

Also don't really think it matters as the setting books tend to be not have a name in front of them anyway. It's the monster books (Volo's and Mordenkainen's) and the mechanics-only (Xanathar's) that fit that pattern.
I’d rather never see another book with a character name on it than another dude. There are female NPCs. Also Chandra comes from a highly literate world and is educated. Being headstrong and hot-tempered doesn’t equate to “doesn’t read”.

And Teferi is little known, and no one (but me and like 4 other people) likes Jace.
 

mortwatcher

Explorer
Compared to previous UA classes as far as inspiration goes, these are pretty MEH

Mechanically, they both seem pretty solid and not particularly over/under powered.
 

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
Compared to previous UA classes as far as inspiration goes, these are pretty MEH

Mechanically, they both seem pretty solid and not particularly over/under powered.
They are rather more conventional than previous instalments, but they seem like worthwhile additions from a role playing perspective. The "hero" paladin seems like a better fit for a chaotic good paladin than existing options.
 

gyor

Adventurer
This rapid fire Release Schedule make me anxious for the next big splat book.

College of Eloquence
Because it wasn't going to call itself the College of Propaganda. Also, I am utterly disappointed at this college's lack of purple prose for it's ability names.

Universal Speech
You can talk the talk, even to things that don't do talk.
They can understand you, but you can't understand them? Major oversight on that. Also, using the inspiration die for the number of targets is very clunky. Something like CHA+die would work better.

Soothing Words
You have Calm Emotions on tap. This basically frees up a spell pick for you. As a talking Bard you would have chosen this spell anyway: It effectively negates the situations where talking isn't an option because everyone is out for blood. Also, it gets rid of fear or charm, should you come across that in combat. Getting it for free is great.

Undeniable Logic
This has two uses:
Firstly, it's basically a bonus action Mind Sliver from the last UA, only more damaging due to the resource cost.
Secondly, it's also Healing Word, with a bonus to saving throws added on top of it. On a short rest cooldown instead of a daily cooldown!

We are just giving this Bard access to all of the best spells without having to use spells now. Yeah, it eats into the Bardic Inspiration Dice. However, at this point you have 3+, and they refresh on a short rest! Oh, and because these aren't actually spells, you can still cast a real spell with your action!

Infectious Inspiration
You effectively get 5 extra uses of Inspiration per day. Because you will be eating a lot of them otherwise. Not very exciting, but it does sore up the obvious weakness of this subclass.

Thoughts
Are we sure this isn't the Psionic Warlord? This subclass is kind of a new direction for subclass design: Instead of becoming a super-specialist, you get all of the things that you would want to have for a talking-bard, and with your general class resources (Feats and Spell Picks) you can instead branch out to pick entirely different things. I kind of like the direction that it's going in, though I am utterly disappointed at the lack of purple prose for ability names.

It took me a minute to realize that Undeniable Logic was a short rest cooldown, because that's not a thing that is supposed to exist outside of the PDK. I am shocked by it still.


Oath of Heroism
Holding out for a Hero.

Tenets of Heroism
You do the punchy things and the daring do, because it's your manifest destiny!~ Leave words for that previous bard.

Spells
You get some physical enhancement, a bit of charm, but of interest here are the ranged attacks. Still no ranged Divine Smite, but it makes you think they are willing at least explore the option now.

Channel Divinity
Peerless Athlete, is ok for someone who is supposed to always be doing something.
Legendary Strike is for crit fishing.

Mighty Deed
More of a warlord power than a power for an Action-Paladin. You bolster your team and demoralize your opponents whenever you crit, for even more incentive when crit fishing. The effects themselves are relatively minor for a level 7 power, the real draw is that you can do it every turn.

Glorious Defense
Whooboy this power is an entire Tier lower than it should be.
Shield on demand. In addition to that, you get to make a free weapon attack against the thing that attacked you when you force it to miss. It's also worth noting that this is a weapon attack, which can be a Ranged Weapon Attack. If only there was a way to make Divine Smite Ranged compatible.

Living Myth
This is just bad. Turning a miss into a hit will be very rare for any paladin that is built for crit-fishing. Advantage on Cha checks is totally against the fluff of "Don't Talk, Just Do" and it's attached to a combat power on a class that doesn't have Counterspell. The only redeeming feature is the ability to turn a failed saving throw into an auto-pass. But that isn't nearly enough to cut the mustard on it's own compared to some of the crazy things that other Oaths get. It's a justification for people to multiclass out of this class and into something that gives them advantage for cheap (as if this subclass actually needed any more of that)

Thoughts
I actually hate this one.

Let's start with the fluff:


That's just the definition of every god-influenced Paladin who isn't an Oathbraker! It's not even particularity divinely powered, it's just some shmuck who was told they had "A great destiny" and proceed to get swole until it came knocking for them. So it's failed at being a Charles Atlas styled make-yourself-a-hero because of the god's interference, and it's also failed at being a divinely powered chosen one because the hero in question is more muscle than spirituality.

Now about the mechanics and fluff interactions.
They want you to make a Rapier based crit-fishing Paladin who also sometimes uses a gnomish self-reloading hand crossbow. It's almost like they made a subclass with the express intention of trolling @lowkey13. The only interesting point is the use of the hand crossbow. Unfortunately that part doesn't come online until much later in the character's life, and Divine Smite still doesn't support ranged weapons.

As for the potential book?
Last time I played M:tG was way back in 5th edition. The game, and it's current lore, are almost entirely alien to me at this point. If we were getting a new setting book (other than the one for Eberron), I would like it to be a proper D&D setting, even if it was a brand new one, instead of another crossover.

But I don't think it's a new setting book. I think it's more along the lines of another XGtE book that is in the works.
I don't think we are getting the full fluff as that would expose their hand.
 
Well this new series of subclasses-based UA articles pretty much tell me two things:

  • the game doesn't need more subclasses after Xanathar’s
  • the gamers still want more subclasses after Xanathar’s

So it's really starting to feel like subclasses are the new prestige classes, but fortunately the extremely slow release schedule of 5e will keep us safe for a long time.
 

gyor

Adventurer
Wizards are super F'ing sneaky. When they were testing for Ravnica they never once exposed their hand.
And it screwed up the playtest feed back as a result because we lacked the right context, so subclasses were judged based on false expectations, which meant they were judged by the wrong standard.

I would rated the Izzet Wizard way differently had I known it was an Izzet wizard, but they made it out to be the new generalist wizard, and so judged it by that standard, which it was Ill suited for.
 

JPL

Explorer
Hook for the Heroism Paladin: he's an incarnation of a sort of Jungian / Campbellian Universal Hero. The longer he adventures, the less he remembers about the personal history of this particular incarnation, and the more he settles into the role of Hero and remembers tales of yore as his own life. This life is the latest telling of an eternal story.

The rest of the party lives in the comparatively mundane medium-fantasy world, where you might know some magic or fight a dragon or whatever; this guy is genuinely convinced that his father was The Sky, his mother was The Earth, that he beat Old Age in a wrestling match and beat Fire in an eating contest . . . and the longer you hang out with him, the more you believe it.
 

JPL

Explorer
Hook for the Heroism Paladin: he's an incarnation of a sort of Jungian / Campbellian Universal Hero. The longer he adventures, the less he remembers about the personal history of this particular incarnation, and the more he settles into the role of Hero and remembers tales of yore as his own life. This life is the latest telling of an eternal story.

The rest of the party lives in the comparatively mundane medium-fantasy world, where you might know some magic or fight a dragon or whatever; this guy is genuinely convinced that his father was The Sky, his mother was The Earth, that he beat Old Age in a wrestling match and beat Fire in an eating contest . . . and the longer you hang out with him, the more you believe it.
And he increasingly doesn't bother with names, because he perceives everyone else as another archetype. He calls all women either Maiden, Mother, or Crone. The rogue is Trickster. The cleric is Wise Man. The wizard is Magician. He's not a details guy. Don't argue with him when he says he laid with the Moon. Maybe he did.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I love how the first Oath Spell of the Oath of Heroism is Expeditious Retreat. I'm having visions of Brave Sir Robin.
 

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