Unearthed Arcana New UA Paladin and Bard.

There's a new Unearthed Arcana in town! "The bard receives a new Bardic College feature: the College of Eloquence. Additionally, the paladin gains a new Sacred Oath feature: the Oath of Heroism."

 

[JPL]

Or a Truespeaker, if anyone remembers them from 3rd Edition.

 

[Blue]

Especially when the player goes for a half-elf with elven accuracy!

Just to make sure I understand, you feel that a elven paladin with elven accuracy would be better served by NOT taking the subclass that grants advantage every short rest so they can definitely use elven accuracy, but instead takes there one where if they happen to somhow generate advantage it combos nicely.

Yeah, it's nice, but elven accuracy will always do better with reliable ways to generate advantage.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Oath of Vengeance granting advantage is almost the same amount of crits as the extended crit range, and a lot more hits. This is nice, but I wouldn't classify it as unbalanced or "extremely powerful".

Vengeance is better at being self-reliant for advantage, but if you're in a party where your allies create advantage fairly consistently then Heroism's extended crit range becomes a real asset on top of that.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Just to make sure I understand, you feel that a elven paladin with elven accuracy would be better served by NOT taking the subclass that grants advantage every short rest so they can definitely use elven accuracy, but instead takes there one where if they happen to somhow generate advantage it combos nicely.

Yeah, it's nice, but elven accuracy will always do better with reliable ways to generate advantage.

Like having a teammate that grants advantage?

 

[Mort]

Just to make sure I understand, you feel that a elven paladin with elven accuracy would be better served by NOT taking the subclass that grants advantage every short rest so they can definitely use elven accuracy, but instead takes there one where if they happen to somhow generate advantage it combos nicely.

Yeah, it's nice, but elven accuracy will always do better with reliable ways to generate advantage.

Never said it was better than a vengeance paladin just that it has interesting potential.

That said, advantage isn't actually that hard to come by in 5e. If you can get proper party synergy, say with a wolf totem barbarian or any martial with shield master - then yes this oath will play better (for this particular feature) than oath of vengeance; so will oath of devotion as far as it goes.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Just to make sure I understand, you feel that a elven paladin with elven accuracy would be better served by NOT taking the subclass that grants advantage every short rest so they can definitely use elven accuracy, but instead takes there one where if they happen to somhow generate advantage it combos nicely.

Yeah, it's nice, but elven accuracy will always do better with reliable ways to generate advantage.

Like having a teammate that grants advantage?

Yep. If you have a Wolf Totem Barbarian in your party, that elfy, dual-rapier heroism build will look a lot better.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Haha it’s a forum debater

Delete everything about logic and eloquence and reason.

Each time a forum debater tries to make an argument a wild magic effect with only detrimental outcomes goes off.

 

[Blue]

Can we just get a Bard that uses "Songs of" abilities to inspire the whole group? I have come torealise that this is the main thing that decreases my enjoyment of the Bard as a class in 5e, aside from the fact that spellcasting eats too much of the design space of the class, leaving too little room for the power of words and song and story, which is what I'd prefer the Bard's identity be based on.

Without getting into deep lore on worlds none of you will ever play in, I'll use an example of what I want to do as a Bard from a thing my friend did in a Star Wars game. The Sith army had boarded the ship, there was no victory here, only escape or death. My friend's Jedi defied that reality, stood in a doorway, told his fellows, "There is no death. There is only the Force." and ignited his lightsaber for a last stand. Inspiring everyone to victory in the process, though he fell in the course of that victory. That's a bard moment. The bard should be able to do that, and every ally that hears it is inspired in a way that no one else could accomplish.

So give me a damn subclass, or some Bard only spells, or something, that accomplishes this. Even in 4e, there were Daily Powers that inspired your whole group and were meant to be used early on or to turn the tide.

THIS is the class I want to play. Even if one of my inspiration abilities requires me to be a martyr.

 

[Mort]

Yep. If you have a Wolf Totem Barbarian in your party, that elfy, dual-rapier heroism build will look a lot better.

The Wolf totem barbarian is woefully underrated!

Everyone seems to go for the massive defensive boost of the bear totem - completely forgetting that, often, the best defense is more rapidly pounding the other side into goo.

End threadjack!

 

[Blue]

Vengeance is better at being self-reliant for advantage, but if you're in a party where your allies create advantage fairly consistently then Heroism's extended crit range becomes a real asset on top of that.

Sure, but party synergy is always where the best force multipliers live. I cheer when my players do things like that. Or the Order cleric tossing spells on the rogue to get more out-of-turn SA attacks. Or whatever.