No Macs? Holy crap did WotC do the math wrong!

[Hussar]

Not everyone is a computer guru.

In fact, many people choose the Mac because you don't HAVE to be a a computer whiz to get the most out of a tool.

Unless OpenRPG has changed a LOT since I last tried it, then it is a MAJOR PITA to get working and requires extensive reading and understanding of complex programs like Python. And if you don't think such things are complex, then you're among the minority who I'd call a computer whiz.

Then there's the expense of things like Kloogewerks which, again unless it has changed significantly since last I checked it out, was prohibitively expensive.

The DDI solution, however, is FREE and seems to have been made simple enough that any computer noob can click a few buttons and get it working satisfactorily.

So you say that there are VTT options all over the place for us Mac-users. Umm... no, there's not. I don't consider difficult, expensive and cumbersome choices to be options.

I suggest you take a look at OpenRPG again. Besides downloading and installing three programs, there are no problems. I have zero knowledge of Python and have been using OpenRPG problem free for years. I don't know what version you tried, but the latest is stable, and works. About the only problem I see currently is if someone is behind a firewall, and that will always be a problem for any sort of VTT.

And, considering something like Fantasy grounds is what, 30 bucks for a full subscription, it's not like it's that much more expensive than the DDI VTT which costs you 120 bucks a year. (with admittedly, lots of bonuses.)

 

[Hussar]

To be clear, my claim is that when the basic consumer unit is the playing group, not the individual player, the number of basic consumer units affected by Mac exclusion rises from "negligible" to substantial.

DDI may still be quite successful, despite one of its key features lacking value for a substantial number of D&D consumers. But WotC will have left a lot of money on the table, given their competitors (3rd-party VTTs or fantasy IPs like WoW) an advantage, and done a disservice to a substantial portion of its fans.

I agree that Mac versions should have been included. I would guess that the expense of including Mac support simply didn't outweigh the possible gains. Not having any access to marketing numbers, I wouldn't know either way.

But, while the basic unit is the group, your assumption there is that existing groups are the target market. I disagree with that. Existing groups already do not take advantage of what's out there, so, I find it difficult to think that they are suddenly going to take advantage of this. Despite what some are saying, programs like MapTool, OpenRPG, and Fantasy Grounds are not difficult to install or maintain. And, in the case of OpenRPG, come linked to the Hypertext SRD meaning that it already does a lot of the rules lookup for you. Minis are created by yourself, so, they look EXACTLY like what you want them to look.

Sorry, digressing.

I look at it this way. The RPGA has 100 000 members. If they can take 10% of that and turn them on to the VTT, they win. That's 10 000 users, nearly 2000 groups. That's 10 (ish) games starting every hour of every day, seven days a week. That's a HUGE draw for other gamers.

IME with OpenRPG, I can post on the OpenRPG forums for a new game and within 10 days have 6 new players ready to go. And that's with the miniscule numbers that OpenRPG attracts. With the kinds of numbers WOTC can bring, you will be able to start a new game, or join and existing game any time of the day. That's where the VTT will be a success.

Does it suck for Mac users that can't cross platform? Yup. It does. And I hope that support is coming soon. But, really, the small numbers, even only 10% of possible users by your numbers, isn't enough to make it worth it out of the gate.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The above makes you either one of two types of people: a) you don't realize that a sentence taken out of the context of the entire post can be taken to mean something entirely different from what the poster intended, or b) you do realize this and you're manipulating the argument to be divisive.

So either you just don't get it or you just don't care.

You said that people choose the mac because they don't need to be a computer whiz to use it. I pointed out using an ironic example that that's not a good reason to choose the mac, because you don't have to be a computer whiz to use a Windows box (or even a Linux box these days, thanks to things like Ubuntu). In fact, you don't have to be a computer whiz so much that my mother, who can't operate her television remote, can use it just fine. If, however, we're going to take it as definitive of non-mac systems that you need to be a computer whiz to use them--which is exactly what you suggest above, else there would be no reason for a non-computer whiz to choose a mac on that basis--then my mother is one, and we've just lowered the bar for what it takes to be a computer whiz to a trivial level.

I'm not taking anything out of context or manipulating anything. Your point is spurious.

It has been stated that what you are paying for with a DDI subscription is the additional content of Dragon & Dungeon and that the VTT is a free component.

So, you're saying it's free once you've paid for it? You should be in marketing.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

IME with OpenRPG, I can post on the OpenRPG forums for a new game and within 10 days have 6 new players ready to go. And that's with the miniscule numbers that OpenRPG attracts. With the kinds of numbers WOTC can bring, you will be able to start a new game, or join and existing game any time of the day. That's where the VTT will be a success.

I had a great experience with OpenRPG playing Arcana Unearthed a few years back. However, I just don't think I like playing on a VTT. Of course, we weren't using voice chat, which may have made a huge difference. Play in text-only mode is slow. Maybe next time I get the urge to look for an online game I'll check the OpenRPG forums for people using Skype or something.

Again, I know more about pythons than I do about Python. It's easy to get up and running as long as you are able to read, and it's easy to use in play. I particularly liked setting up dice macros for my full attack actions.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I would guess that the expense of including Mac support simply didn't outweigh the possible gains.

Sure. My point is that WotC has miscalculated the "possible gains" by confusing the individual with the gaming group as the basic consumer unit.

 

[Eridanis]

Mourn - Please don't keep up that tone of voice in this discussion.

 

[WizarDru]

Yes, "free" vs. "not free" is a very subtle point, and I'm a jackass for distinguishing between them. Oh, the shame.

But they call it a "free" market economy, don't they? MIRITE?

...

I need coffee.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Sure. My point is that WotC has miscalculated the "possible gains" by confusing the individual with the gaming group as the basic consumer unit.

Or they did use the gaming group, it provided insufficient gains, and we'll never know either way until someone leaks the market research so we can see what assumptions they used.

 

[RFisher]

It's too annoying to deal with software incompatibilities with the rest of the world all the time. Buy a Garmin GPS? Oops. No Mac support. Share a printer with your brother? Oops, windows drivers only. Want to run the latest games? Oops, no Mac support. I think long time Mac users are so used to this that they're inured to this.

() Your experience is so different from mine. I'm using the same monitor, (Microsoft) mouse, printer, scanner, & bunches of software on my Macs that I used with Windows before. The world is so much different since I've come back to Mac then it was when I left. Switching back to Mac hasn't caused me any significant headaches.

Instead, I'm going to ask why people like you are so adament to put down the Mac and people who use them?

Oh, that's easy. Because of the militant evangelists. Perhaps the Mac would've never had as much success without them encouraging that, but I was never comfortable with it. It naturally creates an equally strong opposition.

 

[Hussar]

Sure. My point is that WotC has miscalculated the "possible gains" by confusing the individual with the gaming group as the basic consumer unit.

But, you're assuming that "gaming group" is an already fixed unit. That the DM and X players come as a package deal.

And, to some degree you're probably right. There will be some gravitation towards the DI for pre-existing groups.

My point is that their numbers are small enough to be ignored. It's going to be the new groups, the gamers who want to play but can't due to any number of reasons, that are going to drive the VTT.

And I say that because that's pretty much entirely what drives VTT programs now. Yes, some groups come to VTT play preformed, but, judging by the number of new campaigns that get launched with a first come, first serve membership, it's likely they're a very small minority.