D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[Warmaster Horus]

I'm not sure I can agree with that. 5e's approach of gold being almost worthless and magic items being not for sale matches up pretty well with the way I played the game back in 2nd Edition days. Indeed, apart from the "gold = XP" thing, it ties up pretty well with BECMI as well.

It was only really 3e and 4e * where I saw widespread purchase of magic items.

* Caveat: I played barely any 1st Ed, so can't comment on that one.

I started with 1st Ed AD&D and there wasn't what I consider to be a full magic item vending/creation system there, either. Some modules would mention magic shoppes in some towns and their items/prices sometimes but it was an add-on and not a full mechanic. It wasn't until 3e that magic was quantified in terms of gp and xp cost and became a direct assumed power mechanic for advancing PCs.

IMO, they would have done well to omit monetary treasure from those storylines almost entirely. The motivation for tackling those adventures is something other than "gather loot", so there's no need for it. And if it's their position that treasure doesn't really matter, this would have been a prime opportunity to show it.

Sure the main motivation isn't loot. But loot never hurts and I always like my PCs to have some cash jingling in their pockets. Depends on how things are run.

 

[The Big BZ]

Yes I mean the official hardcover adventure campaigns.

If you run them as written, some nebulous world-ending threat is looming at the horizon; having players who are not in the least interested in taking a week or twelve off (for downtime) is not at all unreasonable. What hero spends a month to build a church when Tiamat is about to spawn, or Demogorgon is loose, or your employer dies a little from some curse every day??

I'm not saying you can't work downtime into your campaign.

I'm saying there should be uptime alternatives to spending your gold. I'm saying there should be official support for an utility-based magic item economy, as an optional variant for those who want it.



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Fair enough. My group dislikes the meta plot imperative so we tend to play a slightly chopped up version. So for instance the Death Curse is more localised in its effect etc.

 

[5ekyu]

5e has been out for a while, and it's been a bit since I last wrote about the cash/power economy. Are you guys happy with the lack of magic shops in 5th? Do you ever miss them? Do you find yourself itching to homebrew systems for turning gold pieces into magic items, or do you prefer to play it as written, thank-you-very-much?

one of the most unsatisfying games i was ever in (briefly - four sessions iirc) took a fairly absolute vision of magic item shoppes into the base level of campaign. Not sure if this was actually drawn from rules or just their playstyle but it went like this...

You could automatically buy or sell anything. Sometimes "once you go to town" was required but often it was just "get out of the dungeon".

This was to the point where the actual items you found did not matter a bit to the "older players." it was "expected" everybody would get their share of the gold value and then buy the specific magic items they wanted to optimize their builds. the only importance the actual item found had was how it helped anybody between find and sell.

practically every scenario ended up being more driven by economy/advancement than by characters or story. "long trek to rescue" was turned down over "quick raid." Somehow it even turned out that after scenario loot division/sell/buy was the thing that took longer and seemed more of interest.

i have zero problem with turning the management, buy/craft, sell and economy of "special/superior/magical" gear as case-by-case matters of interactions and skill as opposed to one of spreadsheets, minmaxing and profit ratios.

 

[CapnZapp]

i have zero problem with turning the management, buy/craft, sell and economy of "special/superior/magical" gear as case-by-case matters of interactions and skill as opposed to one of spreadsheets, minmaxing and profit ratios.

That is not in question. The only interesting question is if you want to deny that play style to those that like it.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

The first game I recall having a magic shop in was somewhere in the early '80 somewhere in Greyhawk. The DM would roll a few dice, consult the treasure tables and determine what was available at that time at Ye Olde Magik Shoppe. There would be some amount of bantering to see what sort of prices could be gotten for items being bought and sold, things would change hands and that would be that. I also played in a campaign where the DM would allow you to state an item you were looking for and pay a 'finders fee' to locate one. There would be some random roll every increment of time (1/month game time or so as I recall) and one of those items might turn up, or sometimes something akin to it but not quite the same. Different DMs took different approaches.

 

[delericho]

I also played in a campaign where the DM would allow you to state an item you were looking for and pay a 'finders fee' to locate one. There would be some random roll every increment of time (1/month game time or so as I recall) and one of those items might turn up, or sometimes something akin to it but not quite the same.

That's very similar to the downtime mechanism in "Xanathar's Guide..."

 

[Fauchard1520]

The one thing I wish they'd put more thought into (and, actually, in 3e as well) is a more integrated progression of equipment upgrades (magical and mundane) - in most was, the Fighter upgrading from chain mail to splint armour is equivalent to him upgrading to chain mail +1, so the levels at which these upgrades become available should be similar if not the same.

Have you looked at the Starfinder item level system? I'd be curious about your take on that. Bottom of the page over here:

http://www.starfindersrd.com/equipment/

 

[Fauchard1520]

Not using or even liking magic shoppes is entirely fine.

Actively opposing an utility-based magic item economy as an optional variant for those who prefer it, on the other hand, is reprehensible.

It always struck me as strange that 5e is designed to be the "power to the DM" edition, but that excising support for the magic item economy implies that it's bad-wrong-fun. I mean, enough people like that style of play that the "Sane Magic Item Prices" homebrew became a thing.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

That's very similar to the downtime mechanism in "Xanathar's Guide..."

Pretty much. Often we wound up with not-quite-the-thing we were looking for custom magic items that were flavorful enough to tempt us and usually with some sort of flaw, too. It gave the DM a chance to magic-craft and put interesting unique items into the players' hands. Some balance issues at times but our campaign was very high-challenge so it was hardly an issue. This is from an era before the internet/Facebook/etc that was far more freewheeling than today as far any idea of balance or norms expectations.

 

[delericho]

Have you looked at the Starfinder item level system? I'd be curious about your take on that. Bottom of the page over here:

http://www.starfindersrd.com/equipment/

I hadn't, but have now. That's more or less what I was thinking of.