No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?

[Matrix Sorcica]

Recently got the opprotunity to look in both Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium.

The various Orb of... spells ignores spell resistance? Anyone has any idea as to why?
It can't be because it's a ranged touch - that's what makes it a no save spell. But no SR?

It means golems and such are vulnerable to Orb spells, right?

 

[shilsen]

Yes, they affect golems, as written. It seems that for a lot of the new spells, someone decided that all/most Conjuration spells should ignore SR. Which, IMO, is a little silly, since it makes an arbitrary distinction between elements created by evocation magic (e.g. Fireball, Cone of Cold) and conjuration magic (e.g. Orb of Fire, Orb of Cold).

I've house-ruled such Conjuration spells to give a bonus to penetrate SR = the spell level. That makes them helpful but not no-brainers vs. enemies with SR.

 

[Shayuri]

The -theory- of it is basically that the spell doesn't create a magical burst of energy, like evocation does. All of the magic is used to create a quantity of nonmagical energy, which then is no more subject to SR than, say, a flask of acid, or alchemist's fire.

This works okay for acid, I think...and maybe certain cold/ice effects. Those things can be said to have physical existences that can be called into being and that no longer require magic to sustain. Lightning is a bit iffier, I'd say. What exactly are you conjuring? Where is the lightning coming from? Fire is by far the worst, since a fire conjuration ought to simply result in a puff of flame that quickly dissipates. What holds an Orb of Flame together? What makes it fly straight and true?

Yeah yeah, I know. It's magic. But that's the problem. If it was magic, it'd be subject to SR. The whole idea is that it's NOT magic. But then it goes ahead and behaves -exactly like evocations-. I don't think you should be able to have your cake and eat it too, frankly. I'd allow acid orbs as written, since it's in line with Acid Arrow and Acid Cloud...and not too terribly hard to concieve of. I might also allow spells that pelt people with rocks, or hurl sharp ice spikes...that KIND of thing...to be SR immune. It makes a certain degree of sense.

But I took some issue with Conjuration muscling in on Evocation's turf. A real energy blasty thrower ought to be an Evoker. That means YOU, Orb of Force!

Thank you.

 

[IcyCool]

Here is the reason there is no spell resistance vs. the orb spells:

The opposing individual is so confounded by the complete idiocy of a non-magical globe of force, that he forgets to put up his spell resistance.

Or maybe it's this:

Some poor conjurer was tired of the evokers getting to have all the fun. So he created the orb spells. The evokers, being the arcane equivalent of the "all-muscles-and-no-brains-type" haven't figured out how to match these new, potent spells.

Hmmm, nah, it's not either of those, so it must be what Shayuri was talking about.

I'm just going to house rule all of them except Orb of Acid to be Evocation spells that allow spell resistance.

 

[Nail]

I've House Ruled that all "orb" spells are [Evocation] spells. That means these spells don't ignore SR.

 

[Corsair]

Orb of Force is especially silly when you read the rules on instantaneous duration conjuration (creation) spells.


Mechanically, in theory compared to higher level evocations, the trade off is considered thus: Instead of having a saving throw, it has a ranged touch. Ok, so there is one die roll involved, call that a wash. In return for only affecting single targets vs many targets, it loses SR.

 

[Deset Gled]

No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?

Because the Orb spells were designed by a powergamer with no understanding of how different schools of magic work.

Bad WotC! No cookie.

 

[borc killer]

I don’t have any issue with the other orbs not having saves or SR. I understand the conjuration part and I like it for the most part. But the Force Orb is just silly. I think I am going to have to house rule that one… something I hate doing.

Anyone come up with a reason why it shouldn’t be and Evocation spell?

 

[Darklone]

Because the Orb spells were designed by a powergamer with no understanding of how different schools of magic work.

Bad WotC! No cookie.

Seconded.

I don't allow these spells. They are too weaponlike for my taste. And with their touch attack and no save too good against certain monsters. Or rogues.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, no Orb spells in my games either, except maybe the acid orb.

Cheers, -- N