No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?

[Allegro]

I've always viewed them as flavored jazzed up summon alchemist fire spells. Notice alchemist fire does not allow a saving throw on the initial damage. I think I would be fine with the orb spell if they also shared the 10 foot range increment. Let the wizard get nice and close to the heat of combat if they want to lob conjured elements.

Alchemist’s Fire: You can throw a flask of alchemist’s fire as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet.

A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash. On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire.

 

[charlesatan]

1) Flavor-wise, there will be arguments whether the orb spells work or not. "What makes sense" is relative especially when magic is involved. You can think of the orb spells as a spellcaster conjuring a virtual hand grenade of the appropriate element. Or you don't believe it should ignore SR, it's still a magical force. Suffice to say, if you want to believe in it enough, you'll find an explanation. If you don't want to, you'll find a counter-explanation.

2) Game mechanics-wise, I like the orbs. Mainly because it gives the mages something to do when facing magic immune creatures aside from the "hide behind the fighter argument". I'm a firm believer that the party should contribute something to every encounter no matter how big or small (and so I'm a fan of encounter traps as well as it gives the other party members aside from the Rogue something to do).

3) Contrary to what some of you might believe, the Orbs aren't intruding in the area of evokers. A) The orb spells aren't an auto-hit--you need to make a ranged touch attack roll. It's easier to hit than a normal ranged attack but it's far from an auto-hit. Also bear in mind that spellcasters tend to have crappy BAB bonuses. A 10th-level Wizard let's assume will have an attack bonus of +8 (+5 from BAB, +3 from Dex [+1 normal, +2 cat's grace]). A Rogue will probably have a touch AC of 18 (10 base, +1 deflection (ring of protection), +7 Dex [+5 normal, +2 cat's grace]). That's around a 45% miss chance. Of course less nimble classes will be easier to hit but then again, they will have more hit points. B) Game mechanics-wise, except in situations where the challenges your party is facing actually has SR or spell immunity, I'll most likely go for other spells, such as Lightning Bolt or Fireball. They're one level lower for one thing. For another they affect multiple targets. And they are auto-hits (except with people with Evasion). And occupy a lower spell slot (for metamagic goodness).

4) Orb of Force for me is different from the other "elemental" Orbs. Yes, it is quite good. But that's also why the damage cap has been lowered compared to the other orbs.

5) The orbs for me are a nice addition to the set of energy subtype spells. I mean aside from ray of frost and ice storm, how many other cold spells are there below 5th-level and pre-Spell Compedium? (Protection from Energy fits the bill but that's leaning more towards defense rather than offense.)

 

[hong]

Game mechanics-wise, except in situations where the challenges your party is facing actually has SR or spell immunity,

Well, duh.

 

[Squire James]

Why, is he jealous that other people can hurt enemies with magic? A few orbs in no way makes up for the differences in nuking capabilities between the two.

How about "jealous that another specialty can beat them at their own specialty, on top on what is actually supposed to be their specialty, oh and Teleport too"? Yeah...

 

[James McMurray]

Orbs are far from "beat them at their own specialty." They're nice, but they're not the be-all end-all of nuking.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Yes, they affect golems, as written. It seems that for a lot of the new spells, someone decided that all/most Conjuration spells should ignore SR. Which, IMO, is a little silly, since it makes an arbitrary distinction between elements created by evocation magic (e.g. Fireball, Cone of Cold) and conjuration magic (e.g. Orb of Fire, Orb of Cold).

I've house-ruled such Conjuration spells to give a bonus to penetrate SR = the spell level. That makes them helpful but not no-brainers vs. enemies with SR.

That is an awesome change. However, would a summoned creature have to go against SR as well then?

 

[Nail]

Because the Orb spells were designed by a powergamer with no understanding of how different schools of magic work.

Bad WotC! No cookie.

Agreed.

The flavor (IMO, obviously!) is wrong, and the balance is "off center". These spells aren't as abusable as Wraithstrike, but they are bad enough to be hit with the House Rules Stick in my game.

Biff! Say hello to new entries in the [Evocation] school.

 

[shilsen]

That is an awesome change. However, would a summoned creature have to go against SR as well then?

Glad you like it. And no, summoned creatures work as normal.

 

[Voadam]

Orbs are far from "beat them at their own specialty." They're nice, but they're not the be-all end-all of nuking.

Lesser orbs are comparable to magic missile, except no SR.

Orbs do as much damage as a 4th level single target evocation would do by the spell damage guideline chart, but ignore SR.

 

[charlesatan]

Lesser orbs are comparable to magic missile, except no SR.

Orbs do as much damage as a 4th level single target evocation would do by the spell damage guideline chart, but ignore SR.

You're ignoring the area effect of evocations which the orbs can't quite replicate.