No spell resistance vs. Orb spells? Why?

[Henry]

You're ignoring the area effect of evocations which the orbs can't quite replicate.

That would be reserved for Arc of Lightning and Blast of Flame, which do cover areas with no SR listed. The Orbs aren't the end-all and be-all, but they do step on the evoker's toes in a way that makes the Conjurer specialist probably now the best specialist in the game. If I were playing a specialist I'd easily pick Conjurer over evoker, because they get not only summonings, but a wide variety of damage and area spells, and Teleportations/dimdoors/plane shifts, and quite a few defensive spells as well (such as the wall spells, obscuring mist, and mage armor).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Conjuration = no SR worked OK in the PHB, because they were careful to limit the damage which conjurations could do (typically doing damage over time, rather than all in an instant - c.f melfs acid arrow, acid fog, incendiary cloud).

I'd be happy with additional conjuration spells that did a small, 'natural' amount of damage with a continuing duration, and leave all 'instantaneous' spells to the evocation school. That keeps the schools balanced in my mind, and doesn't leave the Conjurer as the holy terror to Golems and SR creatures which were designed before the conjuration arms race started.

You could even do some realistic high level conjuration damage dealers too - I'd have no problem with a 9th level conjuration spell that conjured a pit of lava 10ft radius for 1r/level, doing natural lava damage to anyone in it and no SR applying.

In fact, perhaps even Ice Storm ought to move from evocation to conjuration - after all, it isn't doing much damage (5d6) but it is doing it over a duration - it seems like ideal for a conversion to Conjuration!

CHeers

 

[KarinsDad]

Agreed.

The flavor (IMO, obviously!) is wrong, and the balance is "off center". These spells aren't as abusable as Wraithstrike, but they are bad enough to be hit with the House Rules Stick in my game.

Biff! Say hello to new entries in the [Evocation] school.

As can be seen by my signature, I'm not a big fan of Orb spells.

I like Nail's solution here because it solves the Insta-Bust Through the Antimagic Field problem which no other type of magic does with a mere ranged touch attack.

And, of course, Orbs can easily do double damage by rolling a 20 to hit.

As some people here know, I had a 20th level PC who was in an AMF wiped out in round one by two lower level sorcerers via: a) cast surprise round nasty area affect spells which do not work because the of AMF and effectively tell the Sorcerers that an AMF is there, b) win initiative and cast a Sudden Empowered Orb and a Sudden Maximized Orb for about 170 points of damage (remember in an AMF, the caster does not get Con hit points for bonus items), c) dead PC.

However, I also think that the Insta-Wipe Out the Golem problem exists even if one makes them Evocation spells. So, they should be Evocation spells plus have SR.

I think the designer of the Orb spells had his head up his butt with regard to how DND works.

 

[Notmousse]

You're mad at orbs because your character purposely stood in an AMF and died?

 

[Nail]

You're mad at orbs because your character purposely stood in an AMF and died?

You don't find it...interesting.....that an AMF doesn't protect you from magically created energy?

 

[KarinsDad]

You're mad at orbs because your character purposely stood in an AMF and died?

Did I say I was mad?

I actually did not really care that my PC died because our group saved the Queen Regent and the Heir and that was effectively the end of the campaign anyway.

However, there are a lot of mundane ways to kill a PC in an AMF. Magic should not be one of those. The entire purpose of an AMF should be that it stops virtually all magic from affecting the caster. One of the most useful damaging spell in the game (and hence, one that many arcane casters would possess) should not blow through an AMF. YMMV.


In that campaign, I do think the DM used meta-game knowledge to kill my PC. The Sorcerers should not have been aware that while in an AMF, my PC could cast out of it and probably should have considered my PC less of a threat and targeted PCs outside the AMF first.

But be that as it may, I still think the Orb spells are broken in several different ways. This is just one of them.

 

[James McMurray]

Not when it's an instantaneous conjuration, and is therefor not being held together by magic once it's been created and thrown.

 

[Notmousse]

AMF wont protect you from a magically created anything. It only protects against active magic, not magic that's come and gone. Much the same way a golem can walk into an AMF.

 

[Notmousse]

Kill the mage first isn't meta-gaming, it's common sense, AMF or no AMF.

Though I do believe that the 'Sudden' metamagics should require that you first know the metamagic it's based off. A sudden maximized, twinned, empowered Magic Missile is a scarey thing to see your Wiz3 pull out.

 

[SlagMortar]

Would anyone care to point out a spell that could not be made into an instantaneous conjuration that ignores spell resistance and antimagic fields?

Here's some examples.

Protective energy sheen: The caster is covered in a thin film that provides energy resistance. Works exactly like energy resistance except can't be dispelled and functions inside an AMF.

Mind control blob: A blob of non-magical mind control flies unerringly at the target. Works exactly like dominate person but can't be dispelled and functions inside an AMF.

Conjure Polymorph: Conjures a blob of non-magical polymorphite which changes the form of the target to the desired form. Works exactly like polymorph but can't be dispelled and functions inside an AMF.

These are dumb, but I really think they make as much sense as a non-magical orb of anything that does damage based on the amount of magical power the caster can bring to bear.