D&D 5E Not Much Ado About Bless

[James Gasik]

So I was thinking about another option that is similar to Bless, but doesn't have the concentration requirements and can be used more times per day. Has anyone had any experience with the Peace Domain Cleric's Emboldening Bond?

 

[Mort]

So I was thinking about another option that is similar to Bless, but doesn't have the concentration requirements and can be used more times per day. Has anyone had any experience with the Peace Domain Cleric's Emboldening Bond?

So far just one experience.

It's good BUT the limitation of once per turn (per PC) is significant and means it's not going to be as good as bless (particularly when multiple attacks start factoring).

Though of course, because it's not concentration, the cleric can do more other stuff and even stack bless on top. Also it lasts 10 minutes and works on ability checks, unlike bless, so is more versatile (and can stack with guidance when you REALLY want to rock skill checks).

 

[Hussar]

White room theorycrafting works just fine for me. Maybe you are just no good at it. It’s a lot easier and works a lot better than playtesting a single encounter a time or too, or even monitoring damage over an adventuring day. Luck, specific encounters, etc all play a large roll there and don’t actually reveal which character if any is generally better.

As an example: From white room theory crafting we know that sufficiently sizes air’s that hit enough enemies can far out damage fighters in terms of total damage. But the question is more of how often that event arises.

I guess I'm a much bigger believer in empirical evidence over straight up theory. And, since any theory crafting won't actually apply to anyone's table, I find that it's generally simply a way to try to win arguments - my theory crafting is better than his theory crafting, so, I'm right. Problem is, again, there are so many variables that it just doesn't work.

Like you say, it's a question of how often does that event arise? So, how do we determine that? Well, tracking it would seem to be a pretty good start. And tracking it over a fairly lengthy period of time as well, so round off the rougher edges and spikes caused by luck.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Has anyone had any experience with the Peace Domain Cleric's Emboldening Bond?

LOL this belongs in this thread:

D&D 5E - Is Tasha's Broken?

Tasha's cauldron has a lot of OP to broken stuff in it from the custom race, variant class, race and archetype rules and several spells and feats are also up there. Twilight cleric is also a big one peace is also great and the other subclasses are often better than the phb as well. The...

www.enworld.org

If it was limited to one creature per round, not each creature gets one use, it would be better balanced IMO.

As it is written it is way too powerful... No big shock considering the source.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

LOL this belongs in this thread:

D&D 5E - Is Tasha's Broken?

Tasha's cauldron has a lot of OP to broken stuff in it from the custom race, variant class, race and archetype rules and several spells and feats are also up there. Twilight cleric is also a big one peace is also great and the other subclasses are often better than the phb as well. The...

www.enworld.org

If it was limited to one creature per round, not each creature gets one use, it would be better balanced IMO.

As it is written it is way too powerful... No big shock considering the source.

To recap Emboldening Bond for those in the studio audience: It's like Bless and Guidance wrapped into one. But for 2 to 6 PCs (depending on the Cleric's prof bonus) who need to stay within 30 feet of one another to use it. Only usable once per turn and it lasts 10 minutes with no concentration. And can be used by the Peace Cleric a number of times equal to their prof bonus between long rests.

Consider that Bless is a 1st level spell and Guidance a cantrip. Both available to this same Cleric.
Also, a PC with the bond in combat, for example, must choose whether they are going to apply it to their attack OR if they are going to... save it... in case of needing to make a saving throw.

A quite solid ability, to be sure, but "way too powerful" is not exactly how I'd describe it. Clearly YMMV.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Clearly YMMV.

Yep.

I'll do one better for reference:

Compared to Bless:
PRO: Lasts 10 times longer (major since this allows it to span multiple encounters, including social or exploration challenges)
PRO: No concentration required (major since it allows the cleric to cast spells with concentration--like, oh, bless)
PRO: Doesn't use a spell slot for 2-6 uses depending on character level
PRO: Can also be used for ability checks (mostly making guidance useless)
PRO: Can affect up to twice as many creatures (fairly quickly depending on play speed matches or surpasses bless)
PRO: (vs. Guidance) Can affect 2-6 creatures per round for ability checks instead of just one creature per round

CON: Can only impact attacks, saves, or ability checks once during a turn (major when Extra Attack comes online or multiple saves are required)
CON: Might only affect two creatures (fairly quickly this goes away IME)
CON: Affected creatures must be within 30 feet of another affected creature when they want to gain the benefit. They can wander all over otherwise when they don't care about the affect.

So, IMO yes I would go beyond "quite solid ability". But, considering what they did with Twilight Domain, I am not surprised. I would be floored (I am certain) if the PHB features were revamped to match the power creep in Tasha's.

*I will state that I don't know if "broken" isn't too strong a term used in the other thread, but jeez this feature is OP regardless.

 

[Mort]

Yep.

I'll do one better for reference:
View attachment 156170

Compared to Bless:
PRO: Lasts 10 times longer (major since this allows it to span multiple encounters, including social or exploration challenges)
PRO: No concentration required (major since it allows the cleric to cast spells with concentration--like, oh, bless)
PRO: Doesn't use a spell slot for 2-6 uses depending on character level
PRO: Can also be used for ability checks (mostly making guidance useless)
PRO: Can affect up to twice as many creatures (fairly quickly depending on play speed matches or surpasses bless)
PRO: (vs. Guidance) Can affect 2-6 creatures per round for ability checks instead of just one creature per round

CON: Can only impact attacks, saves, or ability checks once during a turn (major when Extra Attack comes online or multiple saves are required)
CON: Might only affect two creatures (fairly quickly this goes away IME)
CON: Affected creatures must be within 30 feet of another affected creature when they want to gain the benefit. They can wander all over otherwise when they don't care about the affect.

So, IMO yes I would go beyond "quite solid ability". But, considering what they did with Twilight Domain, I am not surprised. I would be floored (I am certain) if the PHB features were revamped to match the power creep in Tasha's.

*I will state that I don't know if "broken" isn't too strong a term used in the other thread, but jeez this feature is OP regardless.

Why does emboldening bond make guidance useless?

It's not an instance of the same spell or ability, so it stacks.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Why does emboldening bond make guidance useless?

I never said it did, I said "mostly making guidance useless".

I am well aware they stack, just as this feature stacks with bless, further making it OP to me.

 

[Mannahnin]

Why does emboldening bond make guidance useless?

It's not an instance of the same spell or ability, so it stacks.

Seems pretty strong. Even with "once per turn" you can still add it to an attack roll or check on your own turn and a save vs an enemy spell on theirs.

 

[Mort]

Seems pretty strong. Even with "once per turn" you can still add it to an attack roll or check on your own turn and a save vs an enemy spell on theirs.

Yes, it's a strong feature and at 6th level becomes REALLY strong; as anyone under the bond can take the damage anyone else under the bond would have taken (as a reaction, but still).

I see all the complaints about twilight cleric but peace cleric has it beat!

But you know what, it's a very "active" set of abilities. For a party to take full advantage of the peace domain abilities they have to be working together REALLY well. Any set of abilities that encourages better party cohesion are a win in IMO. So yes, they are powerful, but if someone wanted a peace cleric, I'd encourage it rather than nerf it.