Obtain Familiar and warrior/mage PrC's

[sukael]

Maybe I'm living in the prehistory of non-optimized spellcaster multi-classing, but it doesn't seem right. "Well, your BAB increases AND you get more HP than a wizard AND a you get a special ability AND your familiar gets tougher even though you're not a better spellcaster."

The reason that "patch" classes like the spellsword, rage mage, etc are generally very good is that multiclassing in the first place will (usually) leave you behind a single-classed character in a given area of expertise even after the gain from the prestige class. If you combine the strengths of both well you might end up better-off than either for short periods, but this is something that was present in pre-3e multiclassing rules, too.

 

[nick012000]

Actually, the only class levels that would count towards your familiar would be your Wizard levels. Most prestige classes that give extra caster levels are very explicit in that they don't improve things like familiars, Turn Undead, cleric domain powers, et cetera.

 

[eamon]

Actually, the only class levels that would count towards your familiar would be your Wizard levels. Most prestige classes that give extra caster levels are very explicit in that they don't improve things like familiars, Turn Undead, cleric domain powers, et cetera.

Which is why the character must take a feat to allow those other arcane caster levels to count as well.

 

[nick012000]

Which is why the character must take a feat to allow those other arcane caster levels to count as well.

Alrighty then. I don't own whatever splatbook said feat was in, so I didn't know that.

 

[Klaus]

Alrighty then. I don't own whatever splatbook said feat was in, so I didn't know that.

Complete Arcane.

 

[Urbannen]

I have decided not to let the even-numbered levels of the Spellsword prestige class count toward improving the character's familiar if he takes the Obtain Familiar feat. (The even-numbered levels do not grant advancement in spellcasting.)

I believe that the writer of the feat did not consider the case of prestige classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting when wording the feat.

Familiar advancement should be linked to spellcasting advancement, IMO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I believe that the writer of the feat did not consider the case of prestige classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting when wording the feat.

I personally think that the wording of the feat indicates that the writer took care to ensure that classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting still grant full familiar progression.

Otherwise he could have just said "Your level for purposes of familiar advancement is your caster level", problem solved.

Instead, he took care to specify that any level from a class that grants arcane spellcasting ability counts.

-Hyp.

 

[Klaus]

I personally think that the wording of the feat indicates that the writer took care to ensure that classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting still grant full familiar progression.

Otherwise he could have just said "Your level for purposes of familiar advancement is your caster level", problem solved.

Instead, he took care to specify that any level from a class that grants arcane spellcasting ability counts.

-Hyp.

Hmm...

 

[Blue]

I personally think that the wording of the feat indicates that the writer took care to ensure that classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting still grant full familiar progression.

Otherwise he could have just said "Your level for purposes of familiar advancement is your caster level", problem solved.

Instead, he took care to specify that any level from a class that grants arcane spellcasting ability counts.

I agree. Going for class levels vs. going for caster level are very different things. The feat to me very specifically addresses what to add.

You are the DM - if you think the feat it too powerful you can depower it. One thing to think on is that even base familiars from wizard or sorcerer benefit from taking levels of any class, since it will increase their BAB, HP, saves, and skills. Taking levels of ranger will give the familiar twice the HP (half of your d8) and three times the skill points (your skill ranks), as two good saves instead of one and twice the BAB advancement. The familiar bonuses you get every couple of levels are fairly small compared to that. In my opinion the familiar bonuses from level are not so overpowering that you need to nickle them down if a player is willing to spend a feat on them.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)

 

[Urbannen]

I personally think that the wording of the feat indicates that the writer took care to ensure that classes that offer partial advancement in arcane spellcasting still grant full familiar progression.

Otherwise he could have just said "Your level for purposes of familiar advancement is your caster level", problem solved.

Instead, he took care to specify that any level from a class that grants arcane spellcasting ability counts.

-Hyp.

The problem would not have been solved by saying "Your level for purposes of familiar advancement is your caster level" because of the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

Honestly, the requirements are written in such a way that I don't think prestige classes were even considered. "Arcane caster level 3rd"? "You can obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard "?

If you are taking a prestige class aimed at wizards or sorcerers, it's pretty certain that 1. you will already have arcane caster level 3 and not from the familiar-less class and 2. you can already obtain a familiar. The feat is called "Obtain Familiar", not "Obtain or Advance Familiar". The feat has 'bard' written all over it.

In any case, I can't prove my assertion of the "intention" of the writer of the feat; however I asked the player to bring his copy of Complete Arcane so I can get a idea of to how it would fit with the classes in that book.

To me the situation doesn't 'feel' right. The familiar is getting lots of benefits from its master being a spellsword, notably twice the number of hit points and two good saves. It is already much better than a wizard's familiar of the same level, even without the extra few abilities. And that familiar is going to be a pain in my neck. It's a bat in the underdark, the perfect scout plus a mobile invisibility detector. I don't think the player realizes how unkillable the familiar already is, even with only 6th level abilities. I do think the feat's too powerful just for the fact that the group will never be ambushed as long as the player tells the familiar to scout ahead. Hide checks don't mean anything against the bat's blindsense. And this familiar needs more AC plus spell resistance, even with almost 50 HP, improved evasion, and flight speed 40?

In any case, I've told the players I have veto power over anything that isn't from the PHB or the FR sourcebooks. I'm what you would call an 'anal DM'.