Off to War (always recruiting) OCC Year 2:

[Zerith]

... for a third time, I would like to know: When you replayed to Qustion 1 of 5, saying "no all feats are replaced." Were you talking about Wild shape or Alternate form as per a Lycannthrope!? I'm at an impasse of if or if not this character is viable the way I want to use him and my question, from what I can see, has been ignored out right, Twice

 

[HolyMan]

Not ignored just doing the easy stuff first.

I have looked and I think you would need to take the ability to transform not as a feat or it would be replaced and the you would be stuck. Does the feat have a duration of any sort?

I think the best thing we could do is have you gain the wild shape ability in a limited form. And for now have your character built up so that when you started getting higher lvls you started get lycanthrope abilities traded into your class until you were like the equivalent of a werecat rogue ??whatever.

This would require most of your feat choices and abilities, traded out for claw attacks, hybrid form and what not.

What I want in the end is to have your lvl + ECL equal the XP you currently have but not have you gain abilities to fast. One lvl you'll be ahead but the next behind.

Best I can do to work with you do to the limits of the character gene rules.

Also when I was to send Spade's character out on a mission I was hoping his character would encounter yours. I'm not sure what it is your personality is to be but I am hoping for something on the feral side.

HM

 

[Zerith]

Well, that I’ve proposed, I think, is ECL neutral, at level 1 he is just trading a feat for alternate form (without most of its boons, could make it so the hybrid form dos not add natural weapons yet if balance in an issue there) and then he just acquires the proper benefits as he levels up. So, for example, assuming from here on the character only tries to attain his full lycanthropic heritage as quickly as possible, he would, by the time Gareth hit level 7 (assuming the both got EXP at the same rate) the character I’m proposing would have the first class level (rogue) 3 animal levels, and three level adjustments, level 4 with an ECL of 7. ETC 7 to ETC 7. At what point he would basically be a normal Lycanthrope. But I think he would be gaining: Animal Level, Level Adjustment, Class Level, Animal Level, Level Adjustment, Class Level, etc. until he got to ECL 9 (Character level 6) at which point he would be full on ‘Lycanthrope Levels’.

But before that, he would have a fractional amount of the benefits acquired by Lycanthropes proportional to the levels he has acquired towards that end; IE, at level up he could get an animal level, granting a share of the animal depended benefits; a Level Adjustment, granting a share of Lycanthrope dependant benefits, or a class level as normal, and only ever one their of, were in what I’m proposing would he get a sudden bonus larger than another character gains? From what I've heard (Lycanthropes being a bit weak next to other PCs) would be getting arguably less until he could pay off some of his level advancements (possible, at character level 12 (ECL 15) 18 (ECL 20) and 21 (ECL 22).
[Although, I might see if we can arrange buying them off sooner than at those points, and if so it would be something like paying the EXP cost of buying them off at the respective levels (would be 14,000, 19,000, and 21,000 respectively I think)]


[FONT=&quot]So in short, it would kind of be breaking it down into a class; it tallies up as generic lycanthropes without the need of trying to see what class trait is equivalent to what Lycanthropic ability and maintains an ECL that is the same as an other character of his EXP, and I’ve broken it up so each level is about as valuable as any other level. (The damage reduction would be broken in half and gained from the last two level adjustments, for example.) So I’m failing to see where he would be gaining powers to quick. :\

Also: You’ve still not answered the question! >_<
When you said the feats were replaced were you talking about with Wild shape or Alternate form?[/FONT]

 

[HolyMan]

You would retain no feats either way, as I see it. But I do not know the exact wording on alternate form, wild shape list that you can change back as a standard action.

You have to understand that this isn't a standard style game also. When it comes to treasure and such ,so everyone is on the low end of the spectrum for there character lvl this along with your "crunch only" proposal is why I would wish to do this a step at a time.

If I were to see a reason behind wanting to play a lycanthrope other than you will get all these neat abilities I would be more for this. But the fact that I have 5th lvl characters playing right now who only have one magic item per se and the house rules for high stat buy in, DB, extra skill points per lvl, and an extra +2/+2 feat are based on people playing humans without many abilities. Giving you those plus the other would make your character crunch-wise more powerful, over time I agree, but still in the end.

Your best way is to swap abilities and limit the shape changing. I don't believe I can allow a full lycanthrope in a game like this.

HM

 

[Zerith]

I Forget to mention this about being on the Feral side, depends on who you mean; If you mean, crazed and mindless like a wild animal that got hit by the busies end of the club one too many times on the head: No. If you mean animal tendencies: Yes, For example:
-He likes raw meat and loves Livers; and if he was not worried about appearances, would likely just eat it without a knife or fork either
-Ignorance of normal, none defined, boundaries: if he considers someone a frined, he would not think twice about being in their personal space, at the same time though, if he was told not to go somwere by someone that, to him, held authority to do so, he would not arbatraly become ignorant of that boundary later, he would also not wander into someone else’s home or room (unless he considered that person a friend, in which case said friend could awake to him looming over them as he waited for them to wake up) Needless to say, this is a very complex part of his mind set, and exceptions do ably were I see fit.
-Seeing blood and gore Differently; a carcasses does not hold anything revolting to him, nether dos blood (or having some blood on his person) he just sees meat, a;;though if the sence is horiric enough he might see otherwise. But in general, jest meat, and depending on what it is, and if it is under a day or two old, possibly dinner…
-Making animal noises: Churring, Growling, Purring, etc (Cheetah’s can’t roar, so that’s out of what he might do, that said, they do chirp among other things. No joke, YouTube “chirping cheetahs!”)
Etc.

So while I’m planning on him being notably animalistic, he is one: Smart by human standards (14 Int, if my character is smart, it is stated to show it ) and two: he has lived ‘in’ normal human society, all though, and by no means as much as a normal human would, as seen by his aptitude for ‘forgetting’ normal day to day etiquette (buying something, he will pay for it and ask for his change, but he might also first sniff at it if it is meat…) and while he can be considered a member of it, he tends to spend a lot of time out of it when possible. (He has been rather successful at finding work as a currier, so he tends to never stay long at any one place and tends to spend most of his time going place to place.)

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Looked at werewolves, and the feats for Hybrid/Animal forms says “Same as human form” so that is how I’ve taken it so far, but is there a house rule saying otherwise?

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As for having upped stats: with how I’m planning on leveling him, he would have +6 (in hybrid/animal form) by ECL 2, + 12 by ECL 5 and +18(full) by ECL 8. Admittedly his Dex, his best stat, gets the largest boon, literally half (+8); so I can really see what you mean right here ^_^;
[the Damage reduction that is, from what I can see the next largest boon, he would get at ECL 6 and 9: 5/silver and 10/silver respectively.]


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as for tacking the skill points away, I think that is nerfing a weakness; lycanthropes ,natural ones, have 3 level adjustments to eat, they don’t get skill points for those, and animal levels are only 2s naturally. So the hose rule shorts them(when they have all three level adjustments) 6 skill points at any time before ECL 15, short changing them on skill points even with that seems a bit extreme to me. Not saying they aren’t a bit OP giving the setting (I’m a newbie to D&D so I Don’t rely know details about balance yet) but I think if they need to get hacked at, maybe they need to be weakened somewhere else. Also, doesn’t low character wealth make Monks relatively better? (No weapon/armor to buy, and from what I understand, their unarmed bonus helps natural attacks… but pah, lawful is boring )

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Any ways, if you would rather not continue along this line of debate I could just use another character. And as for why I wanted to use a Lycanrope, it is because their a none standard choice that would be highly unequal in the setting that I thought I could sneak in; I loathe RPing “a perfectly normal guy.” Normal is boring, normal is real life, and I don’t think any of us are here to RP Joe Some pushing his cart at the store to buy beans and then roll the dice to see his he makes the spot check. Not saying I RP “Chaotically insane” at every turn though. (It can be fun, but not every character is a half devil that is having their soul shredded by their mere existence.)

But I digress, give me an idea of what you might like instead and I’ll see what I can do with the concept while making the character unequal. (Odd is amusing to me you see ;3)

 

[Dragonwriter]

I like the red hair and green eyes I am about to make that the typical look of all Peshman.

Oh great. I used those in my description to give Jareth some stand-out appearance (beyond the use of the spiked chain), and they got turned into something of a family trait... That made some sense, as such traits are passed genetically. But an entire nation is that closely-related, so the vast majority have those genetic markers? *sigh*

Looked at werewolves, and the feats for Hybrid/Animal forms says “Same as human form” so that is how I’ve taken it so far, but is there a house rule saying otherwise?

That just means they retain/use the same feats they have in their human form, to use in animal/hybrid form when applicable (like Weapon Proficiency... not really useful when you can't hold a weapon).

As for having upped stats: with how I’m planning on leveling him, he would have +6 (in hybrid/animal form) by ECL 2, + 12 by ECL 5 and +18(full) by ECL 8. Admittedly his Dex, his best stat, gets the largest boon, literally half (+8); so I can really see what you mean right here ^_^;
[the Damage reduction that is, from what I can see the next largest boon, he would get at ECL 6 and 9: 5/silver and 10/silver respectively.]

Getting such significant bonuses, when compared to the other characters already in the game, is too potent. +6 to your ability scores at level 2 puts you at roughly more capable than the level 3 or 4 characters. The DR makes you effectively invulnerable as long as the enemies are using normal iron/steel weapons. And I don't think an entire army is going to switch to a more-expensive metal just because one (or even a few) of the enemy can be hurt by only X metal.

Also, doesn’t low character wealth make Monks relatively better? (No weapon/armor to buy, and from what I understand, their unarmed bonus helps natural attacks… but pah, lawful is boring )

A little off-topic, but whatever. Answered from an Optimization point of view: No. Monks need magic gear as much as (if not more than) the other classes. Monks are barely competent as it is, with full normal gear/budget. To take that away limits them even further. The only classes to receive a benefit in a low-item game are the full-casting classes, though even Wizard suffers some, due to lack of available spellbooks/scrolls from which to copy. The ones still at their best are Druid and Cleric, with standard Sorcerer lagging behind a bit (lack of versatility being his hobble).

And Lawful is not boring, if you play it like an alignment should be. (And as a side note, I HATE Chaotic Neutral as a scapegoat for doing stupid/random crap.)
[sblock=Little Lawful-Alignment Descriptive Rant]
Lawful means you follow rules, yes, but no one really said they have to be all the rules, or even the rules of the area/town you are in. A Lawful character can just as easily follow his/her own personal rules/code/laws, which could be quite different from the "standard" laws.
Lawful Good uses these values to uphold the common good, do the greatest good for the greatest number, etc.
Lawful Neutral uses these values as a baseline for how to get by, survive and persevere.
Lawful Evil uses these values as a way to increase their personal power. Note Evil does not mean "out to get/hurt everyone I possibly can." There is simply a lack of regard for anyone else, most of the time. Though some Evil people actually regard life quite highly... but that's a different matter.
[/sblock]

Any ways, if you would rather not continue along this line of debate I could just use another character. And as for why I wanted to use a Lycanrope, it is because their a none standard choice that would be highly unequal in the setting that I thought I could sneak in;

A few words of advice: never try to "sneak in" anything. It's okay to ask, but don't try to sneak. DMs will not let you join if you pull stuff like that. (I understand you may have merely used a poor choice of words, but it's advice nonetheless.)
And by highly-unequal, you are right in more ways than one. Socially, they're (at best) outcasts. ... And balance-wise, see above (about ability scores, DR, etc.).

I loathe RPing “a perfectly normal guy.” Normal is boring, normal is real life, and I don’t think any of us are here to RP Joe Some pushing his cart at the store to buy beans and then roll the dice to see his he makes the spot check. Not saying I RP “Chaotically insane” at every turn though. (It can be fun, but not every character is a half devil that is having their soul shredded by their mere existence.)

But I digress, give me an idea of what you might like instead and I’ll see what I can do with the concept while making the character unequal. (Odd is amusing to me you see ;3)

Who said anything about playing "a perfectly normal guy"? You're only limited to Human and a couple of books, from which you can pull near-limitless combinations of character abilities, not even counting the limitless variety of RP potential.
Have you bothered to read through the (several) IC threads or the RG? We have/had the following (as a quick example):
a portly Human Battle Sorcerer who started a little lazy but has grown more skilled and more hardy;
a Wizard with a drug/alcohol problem that ruined his apprenticeship and has fallen off the wagon several times;
a Paladin-archer fighting against the prejudices against his culture and maintaining the strictures of his calling.

Now tell me... how do you consider these "perfectly normal"? Sure, they exhibit some of the average traits/issues we deal with in RL, but they've got plenty of RP sources and have their own unique, interesting traits. Oh, and they've got magic.
Really, don't sell the game short because of a Race limitation. If you don't want to play a Human, find a different game.
(If this sounds a bit vehement, it's because I've gotten a bit tired of seeing people try to push the DM's limits on what is/isn't available.)

End Note: If my words come off as harsh, I apologize. I sincerely didn't mean them to be so, merely debating and presenting my own argument from a slightly different perspective.
(And if you didn't understand some of the words I used, the dictionary is your friend. )

 

[Zerith]

About Lawful being boring: I just don’t find it as fun: thus it is boring (although L.E. can be fun for me, but that is generally as the big bad, not the big bad here so that is irreverent)

And about being perfectly normal, ok, so I generalized, Far, too much there, but I like making my characters as highly unequal as possible (although I never use girl characters, they confuse me far too much to get into their heads.)

Also I’m not an RP newbie, just a DnD newbie, one of my first characters (pure text RP) was a human warrior he, was not wise or smart, but damnedly over built, got into a fight with a puny elf thief, Poor Armee’s armor was ruined even and battle axed a half dozen or so of his own coins in half before the thief fled before the brute could hit it L
(the other Character? A small silver dragon, small as in the size of a cat with wings and a large tail, so about the size of a prudo dragon? Or however you spell it…)
[FONT=&quot]
Mind you, I have nothing against that old character, but it was a very short PvP RP. For an RP that, from what I can tell, will last years, I want to make damned sure the character I play will intrigue me for years, and wandering how a character will interact because of challenges they cross do to their stature and or form adds to the intrigue. (I’m tall[6’4”], so my characters are generally short, meaning they don’t hit their heads on things, normal, but can’t reach the top self easy, odd.)
[That said most of my characters are smart, because I think I’m smart because of my (overly) inflated ego, and let’s be frank, if we think of something, so did our characters, but it’s hard to justify how a half-wyvern with a brain the size of a peanut noticed the walls of a graveyard are odd because they are two feet tall and four wide, even more so if the ‘smart’ priest/wizard was ignorant of it.

As for my woefully lake luster command of the English language, I have, or had, something that starts with an A and ends with an M. Was told I would not read, but here I am annoying you all, so yesh, can’t type/talk for [kittens], but I can easly read… Unless I have to deal with one of my old forum’s legendary RPers: 2+ pages of one character, sitting in pace, on a stole, saying nothing, NOTHING. No joke, Epic amounts of fluff, no rambling, just crazed fluff ;

And when I said sneak in, I mean setting wise: it’s a pureish human setting, and I was trying to grey step a sub race that has no history, that I know of, in the RP.

Random, Crazy but liked, oddball thought: what about a character who got incarnated into an animal and then started acquiring spells/abilities through the sculpt self feat?
Reincarnate dos not add Racial hit dice: so no ECL conflict.
But it does demand the question of: can the annoyingly smart animal talk back? (Thought of this because it never says you can’t talk in languages you already know if you end up as an animal [other] XD)
Also, if I did this, would the character have the feat and or skill bonuses from being a human previously? (probably not…)

Finally don’t annoy powerful gnome wizards with an odd sense of hummer, and a need of a new mount.
[Hop I did not mix any thing again >_<][/FONT]

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

Right just doing Aver's level up - using the Elf Generalist substitution level from Races of the Wild as planned. And I cannot seem to recall or find whether the Spell Compendium was allowed. Is it? Gotta make my spell selections.

I am also planning to swap Summon Familiar for point blank shot, and scribe scroll for precise shot if that is acceptable.


Aver Level-up
[sblock=2nd]HP (1d4+2): Aver Level-up
HP 1d4+2 5
Gain first level spellcasting.
Gain 4 1st level Spell Slots - 1 base, +2 Bonus, +1 Elf Generalist.
Gain 9 1st level Spells in Spellbook , 1 from Elf Generalist.
Spells Selected:
Gain Scribe Scroll swap for Point Blank Shot.
Gain Summon Familiar Swap for Precise Shot.
Gain 9 skill points (2 base +2 House Rule +5 INT): Concentration 4 ranks, Search 1 rank - class skill thanks to Elf Generalist - Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Furkiss's HP increase to 6.[/sblock]

 

[HolyMan]

How are you swaping out Summon Familiar?? I thought we allowed you to have one for your first lvl feat or something. So essentially you are gaining the feat back and can use it on point blank shot? Or something like that anyway.

HM

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

I spent my 1st level feat on Obtain Familiar. When I take a level of familiar it gives me Summon Familiar - which I effectively already have - so I swap it for a feat.

It was always just intended to let me begin play with a familiar since I wanted to have one I had a history with and not have to spend time summoning up a new one in play. So all I am doing is getting my 1st level feat back I just listed it as trading out the Summon Familiar ability. I have exactly what I would have at this level and without the swaps - I just preferred to have a familiar than a feat for 1st level. I am under the impression I cleared this, but I will admit to having a rose tinted memory on occasion.