Oh wow. Countdown to Essentials

[Victim]

That's a problem with the powers themselves, not the power point system which is fine in my experience. (I'm playing a level 10 ardent in a campaign.)

Only sort of.

Essentially, the standard 4e convention enforces variety of everything except at wills. Even if you really like Rain of Blows, Storm of Blades, whatever, you can't use it all the time. The other powers are important too. If maybe you like one of your level 3 powers over some of the level 7s, it's not a big deal. As a general rule, they're both on the character sheet so both will get used.

OTOH, with the power point system, it's really easy to repeat using the same power, and all of your encounter powers are competing with each other. Repetition of the same power is going to magnify whatever imbalances exist: if X is strong, then powers Y and Z can sit unused as everything goes toward using X three times.

Plus the cost structure tends against the way powers normally upgrade. Come and Get It is a level 7 close burst 3 for a W. At level 23, you get an upgrade to it in Warrior's Urging, which is a level 23 close burst 4 for 2W. It's a bit better than what you had before. However, in the power point system, the choice isn't between having Come and Get It versus the Warrior's Urging. Instead, you can have 3 of the lower level power versus 1 of the epic level power. Suddenly, upgrading your powers has a downside.

To put things simply, the power point structure can tolerate far less variation in effectiveness between powers than the standard system. So, yes, it is the powers. But it's the powers because the PP system exacerbates imbalances; it requires much tighter tolerances.

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

To put things simply, the power point structure can tolerate far less variation in effectiveness between powers than the standard system. So, yes, it is the powers. But it's the powers because the PP system exacerbates imbalances; it requires much tighter tolerances.

Good point, and I agree. The system works (at least in heroic tier), but it's easy to screw up the balance between the powers.

 

[Jhaelen]

Wizards already seem pretty strong without Miss stuff on their encounters.

Only if they got to keep their dailys. Imho, it's the dailys (and the daily utilities) where wizards really shine.

 

[Kingreaper]

The power point system still needs errata imo, so I'm not overly keen on this.

(imo: power points need to stop increasing at the end of heroic, apart from bonus paragon PPs. The prices of powers also shouldn't increase. Simple fix that fixes the major bug with the power point system.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'd really rather that they not make significant changes to the system now. I think one of TSR's biggest mistakes was using different mechanics for basic and advanced. It was a dumb move that just confused everyone. Its not any less of a bad idea now. Yes, the theory is that there is only one system, but that won't hold water for long because it will be practically impossible to balance material between two distinctly different systems. It complicates the lives of DMs too.

 

[Dice4Hire]

No dailies and changing encounters around.

Not good.

I can see dropping dailies, or even adding encounters, but making new encounters with miss effects is pretty strong (assuming the basic power is on par with existing choices)

While I can agree that most classes do not need dailies (well, utility dailies are fine) if these are considered part of "core" Then it will have an impact on existing characters, whatever they say. I will ignore things, if I need to, but those on DDI might not find it so easy.

But I am still curious what it all means, and will be looking forward to more information.

 

[Klaus]

IMHO, some classes (the article clearly says they're changing "some") will have access to non-daily-using builds, much like the Fighter can be a Greatweapon, Sword-n-board or Tempest build.

 

[TerraDave]

I think one of TSR's biggest mistakes was using different mechanics for basic and advanced. It was a dumb move that just confused everyone. Its not any less of a bad idea now.

Dumb=super profitable?

Also not sure who was confused.

EDIT: Also, it was done in response to a (few) legal dispute(s). And, setting aside "dumb", I might even agree, depending on how this is actually done. Maybe.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Well, we don't know yet that WotC will exactly replicate the power point mechanic for all classes. I don't think that's what Mearls means by "simpler" encounter powers: psionic at-will powers definitely aren't simpler. I think the PP system just demonstrated that they can deviate from the prior rigid power framework without the game falling apart.

My guess is that the changes will allow Essentials encounter powers to coexist with existing ones. Imagine giving each class a new build that says the following: "You do not gain daily powers. Instead, you roll a d20 at the beginning of each round and recharge an encounter power of your choice on a 10 or above." (Removes when-to-nova dilemma for newbies and reduces at-will grinding, at the cost of the ability to nova.)

Of course, that's no less wild speculation than anything else. We'll know more once we see the first Essentials class preview!

 

[TerraDave]

As someone who has been saying "essentials are probably going to be a big deal"...even occaisionally posting "4.x"...but besides the told you so bit...

I knew it was going to be more then a just some starter products. But even I was surprised by this. Mearls is citing the power points to say "we are going to be less conservative in keeping classes the same".

I welcome simpler. I welcome throwbacks like more different classes or sub-classes (I welcome retro 4E in general). Some mentioned basic above. TSR actually also kept 2E backward compabitible, so there were quite a few combatible versions of the game floating around at one point. Again, this is retro, so I welcome it.

Of course, we will have to see what they actually do. Having two classes called fighter running around in the same game might just be a source of massive confusion.