D&D 5E On the Necessity for More Bard Threads

[loverdrive]

Snarf, your shtick is getting old. Find some new material.

Now, I'd be interested in actual discussion of bards. I could never understand what's their deal. Like, what's their theme, especially in 5E? Lute-wizard doesn't seem to be different enough from, y'know, wizard and all these different colleges make my brain hurt (or maybe that's because I drink too much?)

Could somebody enlighten me? It's not like I hate'em, I just can't comprehend the concept of a fantasy bard.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

EXACTLY. wouldn't you love someone that gives you a pair of those?

...... okay, can't argue with that.

 

[loverdrive]

EXACTLY. wouldn't you love someone that gives you a pair of those?

Make the heels a tad higher and I'm game.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I just love the flavor of their spell casting. Using tools as focuses opens so many avenues for roleplay... and handign magic itens as infusion is a fast way to make the partu love you. Sure their DPR sucks, but if you give the paladin a magic weapon and teleporting shoes, they will smite the world in your name

I must confess that my group has gotten lazy with describing spellcasting. After 20+ years, we just cast fireball. There is not a lot of sense of novelty nor awe anymore than when we open a beer can. Artificers made me... reimaginate(?) things and sparked new descriptions, even of a lowly cantrip.

 

[Fenris-77]

Snarf, your shtick is getting old. Find some new material.

Now, I'd be interested in actual discussion of bards. I could never understand what's their deal. Like, what's their theme, especially in 5E? Lute-wizard doesn't seem to be different enough from, y'know, wizard and all these different colleges make my brain hurt (or maybe that's because I drink too much?)

Could somebody enlighten me? It's not like I hate'em, I just can't comprehend the concept of a fantasy bard.

I've read more than one fantasy novel that ties the idea of music to that of magic, which, by itself, is a pretty cool idea. I don't hate bards, but I do find it difficult to really get into character concepts based specifically on musical instrument use. That's just me though, and everyone else's MMV, of course.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Snarf, your shtick is getting old. Find some new material.

While this work is strictly voluntary on my part, this failure will result in my rations being cut in half.

Loverdrive is always right. I will work harder.

 

[loverdrive]

I've read more than one fantasy novel that ties the idea of music to that of magic, which, by itself, is a pretty cool idea. I don't hate bards, but I do find it difficult to really get into character concepts based specifically on musical instrument use. That's just me though, and everyone else's MMV, of course.

Magic music is a really cool thing, I'm not arguing with that.

What I'm puzzled with is their identity. Like, what makes bard a bard and not a wizard? Or a rogue?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Magic music is a really cool thing, I'm not arguing with that.

What I'm puzzled with is their identity. Like, what makes bard a bard and not a wizard? Or a rogue?

Excerpt from The Original Sin- How I am Going To Create The Bard and Ruin D&D Forever
(Doug Schwegman, The Strategic Review, Feb. 1976)

I believe it {THE BARD- Snarf} is a logical addition to the D&D scene and the one I have composed is a hodgepodge of at least three different kinds, the norse ‘skald’, the celtic ‘bard’, and the southern european ‘minstrel’. The skalds were often old warriors who were a kind of self appointed historian whose duty was to record the ancient battles, blood feuds, and deeds of exceptional prowess by setting them to verse much like the ancient Greek poets did. Tolkien, a great Nordic scholar, copied this style several times in the Lord of the Rings trilogy (for example Bilbo’s chant of Earendil the Mariner). The Celts, especially in Britain, had a much more organized structure in which the post of Bards as official historians fell somewhere between the Gwelfili or public recorders and the Druids who were the judges as well as spiritual leaders. In the Celtic system Bards were trained by the Druids for a period of almost twenty years before they assumed their duties, among which was to follow the heroes into battle to provide an accurate account of their deeds, as well as to act as trusted intermediaries to settle hostilities among opposing tribes. By far the most common conception of a Bard is as a minstrel who entertained to courts of princes and kings in France, Italy and parts of Germany in the latter middle ages. Such a character was not as trust worthy as the Celtic or Nordic Bards and could be compared to a combination Thief-Illusionist. These characters were called Jongleurs by the French, from which the corrupt term juggler and court jester are remembered today.

*************
Arguably, the biggest issue with the current Bard incarnation (other than its existence) is that it is a full caster. While magic has always been a small part of the Bard identify, it was a small part of the identity.

 

[Fenris-77]

Magic music is a really cool thing, I'm not arguing with that.

What I'm puzzled with is their identity. Like, what makes bard a bard and not a wizard? Or a rogue?

That is the issue, yeah. I struggle a little bit with it as well. I'm much more likely to use some level in Bard, reskinned, as part of a MC build because there are a lot of cool widgets to play with than I am to actually play a Bard full stop.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That is the issue, yeah. I struggle a little bit with it as well. I'm much more likely to use some level in Bard, reskinned, as part of a MC build because there are a lot of cool widgets to play with than I am to actually play a Bard full stop.

Honestly, the closest thing to a classic D&D bard (for those poor people who need to wallow in the filth) would be something akin to an Arcane Trickster base with Charisma-casting and a bard spell list.