D&D 5E On whether sorcerers and wizards should be merged or not, (they shouldn't)

[tetrasodium]

I see them as pairs

Learned Arcana on a Nurtured Magician
Raw Arcana on a Natural Magician
Learned Fighting Styles taught to a Nurtured Warrior
Raw Fighting Styles taught to a Natural Warrior

This is not a "pair"
Arcana. Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about spells, magic items, eldritch symbols, magical traditions, the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes.

you could make an argument for wisdom applying there, but not charisma & not dna. That doesn't even get into the massive overlap in spell lists. Paladin/cleric & Ranger/Druid have some overlap, but not so much that they effectively play almost the same. Why is arcana even on the sorcerer skill choice options instead of a wizard class feature or something?

 

[Gadget]

One thing I've seen mentioned here that I agree with is that the current system seems to have too many CHA based casters. I had heard that WOTC wanted to make Warlocks INT based in the closed testing for DNDNext, but playtesters complained and they switched back to CHA. We would have had far less sorc-locks and paladin-locks that way, though I see the argument for both sides. We probably would have ended up with wiz-locks though.

 

[dave2008]

Off-topic, but I wonder what that'd look like.

I have some ideas.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

One thing I've seen mentioned here that I agree with is that the current system seems to have too many CHA based casters. I had heard that WOTC wanted to make Warlocks INT based in the closed testing for DNDNext, but playtesters complained and they switched back to CHA. We would have had far less sorc-locks and paladin-locks that way, though I see the argument for both sides. We probably would have ended up with wiz-locks though.

You could still do that and it probably wouldn't change too much or really break anything.

 

[Minigiant]

This is not a "pair"
Arcana. Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about spells, magic items, eldritch symbols, magical traditions, the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes.

you could make an argument for wisdom applying there, but not charisma & not dna. That doesn't even get into the massive overlap in spell lists. Paladin/cleric & Ranger/Druid have some overlap, but not so much that they effectively play almost the same. Why is arcana even on the sorcerer skill choice options instead of a wizard class feature or something?

My sorcerer was a pleasant child born on the same day an ancient dragon died (mind erupted). All the babies born that day became a sorcerer as fragments of the dead dragon's mind were implanted in the newborns. When these children acted like dragons, they could recall the dragon's knowledge and power. Literally if the little megalomaniacs pretended to be dragons or performed to be dragons, they got dragon spells.

It was use Charisma, get spells.

I could see almost every sorcerer learning Arcana and the associated language of their bloodline to understand their powers better. If I wake up one day with magic powers, I'm calling in sick and flying to the library.

 

[dave2008]

Most people are probably familiar with three: warrior, mage, and rogue. (Not sure why so many people fall back to using archaic and unintuitive terms like "fighting-man" and "magic-user" when perfectly good terms like "warrior" and "mage" exist in popular use.)

I see no reason to separate the warrior and the rogue (both "martial" or "mundane" classes in my ideal structure). They would just be distant branches of the same tree.

I personally disdain the distinction between Arcane and Divine magic as it exists in D&D, which remains (since the beginning) one of my biggest hangups with D&D. ...

...As it stands, the difference between arcane and divine magic in D&D feels superficial and milquetoast, especially given the overlap that exists between spell lists.

I agree. When I say I could see arcane and divine casters being separate, that includes truly making them separate from a fluff and mechanical perspective.

 

[Undrave]

I see no reason to separate the warrior and the rogue (both "martial" or "mundane" classes in my ideal structure). They would just be distant branches of the same tree.

If all mundane get squished into the same class then so should all the spell casters.

 

[tetrasodium]

My sorcerer was a pleasant child born on the same day an ancient dragon died (mind erupted). All the babies born that day became a sorcerer as fragments of the dead dragon's mind were implanted in the newborns. When these children acted like dragons, they could recall the dragon's knowledge and power. Literally if the little megalomaniacs pretended to be dragons or performed to be dragons, they got dragon spells.

It was use Charisma, get spells.

I could see almost every sorcerer learning Arcana and the associated language of their bloodline to understand their powers better. If I wake up one day with magic powers, I'm calling in sick and flying to the library.

That is were either racial or background stuff belongs. What you described is an accidental yaunti or something sand you are still ignoring the fact that those "dragon spells" are almost entirely wizard spells including the must take "right spells". Nothing about your little fluff justifies sorcerer's being Wizard+ but with charisma & there are still all of the other non-dragon sorcerer types. Arcana isn't limited to dragon sorcerers.

If all mundane get squished into the same class then so should all the spell casters.

They don't need to be combined, sorcerer needs to be ejected from the wizard box so wizard can grow & evolve.

 

[Minigiant]

That is were either racial or background stuff belongs. What you described is an accidental yaunti or something sand you are still ignoring the fact that those "dragon spells" are almost entirely wizard spells including the must take "right spells". Nothing about your little fluff justifies sorcerer's being Wizard+ but with charisma & there are still all of the other non-dragon sorcerer types. Arcana isn't limited to dragon sorcerers.

The fact that the dragon spells is the fault of the prowizard side of the community who didn't want socerers to exist in any serious capacity. Sorcerers should not have the wizard list much like how Barbarians don't have Fighting Styles and manuevers.

Playing a sorcerer should be like playing a barbarian except your axe is magic.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Playing a sorcerer should be like playing a barbarian except your axe is magic.

"Ah jus' wanna hit da orc wi' ma' magic!"