D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Yaarel]

My ideal.

Psion replaces Sorcerer.

Sorcerer becomes a Psion subclass.

Sorcerer handles all of elemental Evocation and Transmutation.

The Psion has force magic, such as Telekinesis and Mage Hand, Magic Missile, Wall of Force, etcetera, which become the Dunomancy school.

However, the Psion normally lacks elemental magic except for the Sorcerer option.

Warlock gains a Dragon Pact.

 

[Minigiant]

A reasonable house rule. Do Sorcerers get anything else out of the Wizard now getting flexible access to their core class feature? Y'know, given Wizards were already a stronger class than Sorcerer to begin with.

Sorcerer can cast any spell on their list even if not prepared at 150% points or slots cost. As they can feel the Weave.

The one and only way that flies is if Sorcerers get substantially more class features than they actually have. Because as it stands, the one and only thing you get that isn't from subclass IS your sorcery points and metamagic. If Wizards also had it, then Sorcerers straight up would just be crappy, inferior Wizards with a different casting stat.

The issue is that metamagic is literally the only unique thing about the sorcerer class. If you give it to others the class has no reason to exist. Which is fine by me as I don’t think it should.

As above Sorcerer can spontaneously cast their whole smaller spell list at higher cost at my table.

Sorcerer	Wizard
Empowered	Careful
Heightened	Distant
Quickened	Extended
Seeking	Enhanced
Subtle	Transmuted
Twinned	Widened
Bend	Guided
Chain
Maximize

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah, in those worlds that use the “spark” trope, I’d always considered that those who dialed-classed or multi-classed into the Wizard “had the spark”, they just possibly came into it late. If your character never took Wizard levels, you didn’t have the spark.

Prior to 3E, I seem to remember the character stories of magic-users always being one of intense training and study. No one had natural talent of the likes of the sorcerer, or at least, that I recall. The appearance of the 3E sorcerer opened up that possibility, and people jumped on it -“yeah, natural magic, like a dragon - because I’ve got some of that in me - why didn’t we think of this years ago?” was the sort of reaction me any my group had. And that seems to be a lot more common in YA modern fiction and the old “burning the midnight oil for years” just to make a few magic sparks has faded away. Self-discovery of innate power vs. study, research and hard labor. Personal growth vs. slaving away beneath another’s tutorage for jealousy guarded secrets.

All Humans have the "spark" of magic.

Human martials exhibit this spark when doing superhuman feats at the highest tiers.

 

[ezo]

Wizard really should just be a Sorcerer subclass.

I think you meant: Sorcerer really should just be a Wizard subclass.

One thing I do hate about the sorcerer is that they stole the metamagic concept that OBVIOUSLY should be available for wizards as well.

Agreed. Which is why sorcerer should just be a wizard subclass.

FWIW, we already house-rule sorcerer is a subclass of wizard, and warlock is a subclass of cleic.

 

[MoonSong]

I think you meant: Sorcerer really should just be a Wizard subclass.


Agreed. Which is why sorcerer should just be a wizard subclass.

FWIW, we already house-rule sorcerer is a subclass of wizard, and warlock is a subclass of cleic.

No, the only way to do a merge is by putting wizard into sorcerer. The other way around only leadsto killing the sorcerer and giving its toys to the wizard. In that other thread were I argued against merging, I proposed this subclass on a whim, on an hypothetical version that did away with the wizard. Can you do one that supports a satisfactory sorcerer (no book, no studying, no prep, no int)?

Sorcerous Origin: Wizardry

Not all sorcerers are uneducated and illiterate. Many are born with just a humble spark that needs to be harnessed, controlled and nurtured through tireless study under the guide of a mentor. These sorcerers are known as wizards.

1st Level
Academy learning
You gain training in Arcana, History, Religion and Medicine. You also gain expertise in one of these skills.

Wizardry
Through you studies you have untapped the possibility of manipulating your own magic. However the details are long and hard to remember.
Pick a school of magic, you gain a spell book which contains a number of first level spells of that school equal to 1+ your intelligence modifier. You can choose one of the spells in your book and add it to your spells known until you finish a long rest. You also learn two first level rituals of your choice and write them in your spellbook. If you find a scroll or a spellbook with spells of your chosen school or rituals of a level you can cast, you can copy them to your book at the cost of 50gp per spell level.

6th level
Weave Manipulation
When you cast a spell from your chosen school that requires a saving throw, you can spend 2 sorcery points to add your intelligence modifier to the spell DC of that spell.

14th level
Improved Wizardry
Starting at 14th level, you can now prepare a number of spells from your spellbook equal to you intelligence modifier.

18th level
Arcane recovery
When the target of a spell you cast from your chosen school fails its saving throw, you recover sorcery points equal to that spell's level. You need to complete a long rest before you use this ability again.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

elaborate on thematics as mechanics is normally fixable

That's part of the problem. It's basically got none in the first place, beyond some vague power of the mind thing, which frankly sounds like it's just magic. There have been attempts to differentiate between the two. Dark Sun was probably the most successful of those attempts, mostly by making magic a horrible blight on nature compared to psionics. But for most settings the two are basically interchangeable.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Ugh. The last thing wizards need is more resource management. If wizards were put under sorcerers, sorcery points should be something that subclass doesn't get.

Or, alternately, put sorcerers, wizards and warlocks as subclasses under a "mage" umbrella, similar to what the first One D&D UA did. But to get all of the variety of existing subclasses, you'd need to create a third tier of specializations, like I gather Shadow of the Demon Lord does. But that's major surgery and something to save for sixth edition or a 5E fantasy heartbreaker at someone's home table using the SRD.

 

[Yaarel]

I guess my problem is...I don't really know what stories would make more sense for that. E.g. Harry Potter is a world where there really is such a thing as magic genetics, and yet I would 110% still say that every Harry Potter magic-user is a D&D Wizard, some are just really bad at being Wizards.

In my head canon since 4e, translating into 5e:

Hermione = Wizard (Intelligence)
Harry = Warlock (Charisma) = Pact is the "old magic" of the love from parents
Ron = Eldritch Knight?

Potterverse setting:

Wizarding World = Feywild

"Wizards" = humanlooking Elves

(They were 4e Int-Cha Eladrin, but 5e Eladrin are too different. 2024 Elf works.)

Note, in Potterverse, there are rare Muggles who learn how to cast spells. Oppositely, there are rare Wizards who are unable to cast spells. So D&D rules work well enough for the setting.

 

[ezo]

No, the only way to do a merge is by putting wizard into sorcerer. The other way around only leadsto killing the sorcerer and giving its toys to the wizard

Not at all. In our house-rule the "sorcerer" is alive and well as a subclass of wizard. It works perfectly fine.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

My solution was to get rid of sorcerer and give its fluff and some of its mechanics to the warlock, thus merging the two classes.