D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Remathilis]

We can start at the former and build up to the latter.

By build up you better mean "reveal his Kryptonian heritage".

That's why this debate never goes anywhere. Because people say they want mundane heroes and then want them doing 10 impossible things before breakfast. But don't call it magic. Don't even say it's supernatural. Fighters just train and make gravity a suggestion because they want it to.

It. Doesn't. Work. Like. That

Either fighters are mundane and nonmagical creatures and are limited by that OR they are magical beings and all bets are off.

This really reveals the folly of trying to cram John McCain and Hercules in the same class. They don't flow from one to another. So pick which one you want.

 

[Gammadoodler]

It. Doesn't. Work. Like. That

Either fighters are mundane and nonmagical creatures and are limited by that OR they are magical beings and all bets are off.

The first is a weirdly emphatic statement. Where are the limits to fantasy training defined?

And whether mundane or magical, the fighter is still a fantasy creature.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

By build up you better mean "reveal his Kryptonian heritage".

That's why this debate never goes anywhere. Because people say they want mundane heroes and then want them doing 10 impossible things before breakfast. But don't call it magic. Don't even say it's supernatural. Fighters just train and make gravity a suggestion because they want it to.

It. Doesn't. Work. Like. That

Either fighters are mundane and nonmagical creatures and are limited by that OR they are magical beings and all bets are off.

This really reveals the folly of trying to cram John McCain and Hercules in the same class. They don't flow from one to another. So pick which one you want.

No, they can flow from one to another, it can work like that if you want. And I do. It's like wuxia or many myths. Mighty martial heroes simply can learn to do stuff that is impossible in the real life.

 

[FrogReaver]

It. Doesn't. Work. Like. That

Either fighters are mundane and nonmagical creatures and are limited by that OR they are magical beings and all bets are off.

I don’t find this solid logic because there’s a huge middle ground. It doesn’t have to be nothing or everything.

This really reveals the folly of trying to cram John McCain and Hercules in the same class. They don't flow from one to another. So pick which one you want.

It works fine when you have very little mechanical differentiation between fighters. From that perspective John McClain and Hercules look similar enough. Maybe one is higher level or has higher str, but mostly the same in their capabilities from a high level perspective.

Neither of them really offer the kind of supernatural abilities people today say fighters need.

Which segways into a good point. When people say they want supernatural fighters they don’t want Hercules, they usually mean more fantastic than Hercules, something like over the top anime heroes and their abilities.

 

[CreamCloud0]

By build up you better mean "reveal his Kryptonian heritage".

i do not.

That's why this debate never goes anywhere. Because people say they want mundane heroes and then want them doing 10 impossible things before breakfast. But don't call it magic. Don't even say it's supernatural. Fighters just train and make gravity a suggestion because they want it to.

that's why this debate never goes anywhere, because this is a sword and sorcery game system but then people insist on restricting martials to stuff 'a guy at the gym' could do unless they are explicitly empowered by magic or some other supernatural force, don't even let them have hollywood physics.

It. Doesn't. Work. Like. That

why doesn't it? because you don't want it to?

Either fighters are mundane and nonmagical creatures and are limited by that OR they are magical beings and all bets are off.

the fighter is considered mundane and nonmagical, in a fantasy setting, where the baselines and ceilings are vastly different, they have magic in their bodies and maybe a few genes from ancestor who was a giant, but that doesn't mean they need to be casting spells or growing wings

This really reveals the folly of trying to cram John McCain and Hercules in the same class. They don't flow from one to another. So pick which one you want.

you can, this is what subclasses are for, give McClain fighting styles, maneuvres, ambush tactics and expertise and give hercules damage resistance, powerful build and a megaton strike.

 

[Remathilis]

The first is a weirdly emphatic statement. Where are the limits to fantasy training defined?

And whether mundane or magical, the fighter is still a fantasy creature.

Then normal means nothing. Trees exploding into fireballs. Cows are violent carnivores. Dogs speak common and cats can fly. Fantasy means no rules. Anything can happen. The sky is purple. My sister has fifteen eyes. You can't tell me what isn't normal!

I'd rather every fighter be born with the blood of Gods than have normal be meaningless.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Then normal means nothing. Trees exploding into fireballs. Cows are violent carnivores. Dogs speak common and cats can fly. Fantasy means no rules. Anything can happen. The sky is purple. My sister has fifteen eyes. You can't tell me what isn't normal!

All that indeed can be normal in a fantasy world if you want.

I'd rather every fighter be born with the blood of Gods than have normal be meaningless.

That is very narrow way of thinking, and also makes every hero some chosen one who is destined to greatness by their superior heritage. That's not a narrative I want. But it is a world of myths and stories, it is not our real Earth. In such a world it is possible for people to learn to do things that in the real world are impossible.

 

[Maxperson]

This just means there is no Bladesinger version of Fighter. A fighter who can get into Wizardy or Clericy with Fighter resources.

There's literally one in the PHB. The eldritch knight is a fighter with fighter resources who goes into wizardry. He doesn't get all of wizardry, but the Bladesinger doesn't get all of fighter, either.

 

[Maxperson]

It all goes back to how much suspension of disbelief someone is willing to give. My stance is since we can't agree what that line looks like, the safe play is to make it all magic rather than try to sort out what is talent, luck, ambient magic from the planet, etc.

That's the worst play. The safe play is to let each table sort it out like has happened since the game's inception. That way folks who want purely mundane fighters, skill rogues, etc. can have them. We shouldn't take the very few mundane classes away from a significant group of people who likes to play them.

 

[Maxperson]

Hopefully being so powerfully enchanted will keep the farm tool clean; no one likes a dirty hoe.

And being the most powerful hoe on the farm, it's also the high hoe.