OOC Sword of Valor, Wrath of the Righteous AP by MLeibrock and Scotley

[Leif]

What makes you think we don't get a saving throw each round?

To be fair, the save every round is a fairly recent addition to the spell. Back in the good old days, you only got one shot at saving against most spells, and if you failed you were just stuck for the duration. There is a notable exception to this that I recently read in the 1E AD&D PH, but I can't remember what it is. I think this makes the spell much less useful, particularly Hold Person, Mass, which is a 7th level spell that allows a save every round. Admittedly, at 7th level, the DC is considerably higher, but the target's bonuses to the save will be likewise enhanced, in all probability.

 

[Lou]

repeating saving throws

To be fair, the save every round is a fairly recent addition to the spell. Back in the good old days, you only got one shot at saving against most spells, and if you failed you were just stuck for the duration. There is a notable exception to this that I recently read in the 1E AD&D PH, but I can't remember what it is. I think this makes the spell much less useful, particularly Hold Person, Mass, which is a 7th level spell that allows a save every round. Admittedly, at 7th level, the DC is considerably higher, but the target's bonuses to the save will be likewise enhanced, in all probability.

I don't remember much of the rules of 1E or even 2E. I suspect the notable exception to only one saving throw is Hold Person, but I could be wrong.

How new is the 3.5 SRD? 2000? That would be not quite half the history of D&D.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPerson.htm

"Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)"

I see that this is kept in 5E SRD as well.

 

[Shayuri]

I didn't remember that you got a save every round. I thought that was a 5e thing.

Happy to see I'm wrong.

 

[Scott DeWar]

https://idiscepolidellamanticora.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/tsr2010-players-handbook.pdf

This spell holds immobile, and freezes in places, from 1-3 humans or humanoid creatures (see below) for 5 or more melee rounds. The level of the cleric casting the hold person spell dictates the length of time the effect will last. The basic duration is 5 melee rounds at 1st level, 6 rounds at 2nd level, 7 rounds at 3rd level, etc. If the spell is cast at three persons, each gets a saving throw at the normal score; if only two persons are being enspelled, each makes their saving throw at -1 on their die; if the spell is cast at but one person, the saving throw die is at -2. Persons making their saving throws are totally unaffected by the spell.

Creatures affected by a hold person spell are: brownies, dryads, dwarves, elves, gnolls, gnomes, goblins, half-elves, halflings, half-orcs. hobgoblins, humans, kobolds, lizard men, nixies, orcs, pixies, sprites, and troglodytes. The spell caster needs a small, straight piece of iron as the material component of this spell.

 

[Lou]

So in 1978 AD&D, Hold Person was a Cleric level 2 spell and a Magic-User level 3 spell, with only one saving throw allowed. The Good Ol' Days(tm)

 

[Leif]

I didn't remember that you got a save every round. I thought that was a 5e thing.

Happy to see I'm wrong.

I thought the same, but I'm not so happy that you [we] were [possibly] wrong, and I'm still not convinced that we were [are].

 

[Leif]

DeWar, remember, in 1E, there were notes on how to adjudicate spells in the DMG, in addition to the descriptions in the PH. It is in the DMG where you'll find the thing about repeated saves. So I was wrong, it's not in the DMG. In fact, I can find no mention of a save every round vs. Hold Person in 1E rules at all! I'm not sure what I was looking at before, but I am relieved to know that my memory of the spell was correct.

There is one odd thing in the description of the 2nd level cleric spell Hold Person in the 1E PH -- it gives durations for the spell when cast by a first or second level caster, but the spell is not available to clerics below third level. And under 1E rules, a cleric would have to be even higher than that to scribe a scroll. I guess a higher level cleric could theoretically scribe a Hold Person scroll cast at first or second level, but that would just be weird.

 

[Scotley]

Fortunately for you lot, we are playing Pathfinder 1e and you do get to try a new save each round. Sorry to disappear on you all this week. Hope to be back to normal posting next week and get you all sorted out.

 

[Neurotic]

I thought you had some way to avoid cover too since you didn't roll for partial cover in general first round, Maidh.

Also, I don't think you should assume to know what type which monster is, that what knowledge skills are for.

On the other hand, MetaVoid made the roll but Adrian didn't say anything

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I didn't roll because there's nothing to roll. Partial cover and cover provide AC bonuses (not miss chances - that's concealment). Total cover means I don't have line of sight, thus unless I have a way to ricochet my arrows I can't shoot it. I think something like that ability might come on line later, but I'm not sure.

And 'Keva does, in fact, know the thing is a demon. Or at least he's been told that it is. When Adrian saw it he said, "Demons!" Veridian himself then repeated the word in the very next post (Posts 1274 and 1275 if you'd like to check my memory).