OOC: The Enemy Within, using 4E

Dr Simon

Explorer
Currently full.

Expected no. players 3-6
Campaign: The Enemy Within (Warhammer)
System: D&D 4
Character Level: 1st
Creation Method: Method 1 or 2 as per PHB.
Allowed Options: See below.

Rogues Gallery

Your characters begin on the road between the small town of Delberz (that has a mine, a river and a wizard), heading for the capital city, Altdorf. You are probably answering the advertisement attached below.
Evening is coming, and up ahead is the Coach and Horses Inn, where you hope to catch a coach bound for Altdorf in the morning, or at the very least find food and somewhere warm to spend the night.

Allowed PC Races (in descending frequency):
Human
Halfling (+2 Dex, +2 Con or Cha)
Dwarf (+2 Con, +2 Wis or Str)
Elf (Wood Elf) (+2 Dex, +2 Wis or Int)
Eladrin (High Elf) (+2 Int, +2 Dex or Cha)

- Halflings are quite common in the Empire, having their own region (the Moot) and even a halfling Elector. Dwarves are slightly less common, but due to cultural ties between the dwarves and Sigmar Heldenhammer, legendary founder of the Empire, they have mostly good relations with the humans. Wood elves from Laurelin forest are more exotic, a subject of awe. High elves are extremely rare, having mostly abandoned the Old World for their havens in the west. Most non-elves would not know the difference.
- Common racial stereotypes of the non-humans in the Empire are; halfling cook, dwarf engineer, elf minstrel.

Common Classes (no particular order):
Fighter
Warlord
Ranger
Rogue
Cleric
Wizard

Also possible, but less common:
Runepriest (possibly Dwarf only)
Druid (human only, member of Old Faith)
Shaman (occur amongst wood elves, some Kislevites and goblinoids)
Paladin (no great precedent for them, and would likely be quite unique individuals)

Other classes that may exist, but are more of a "bad guy" option:
Sorcerer
Warlock
Wizard (Summoner build)
These will probably cause some kind of corruption effect in those who take the class.

- All of the options from the various ~ Power books for the permitted classes seem reasonable, some actually make the characters more "normal" again.
- Use background options (PHB2)

This is Insights suggestions for what class to choose according to what your character's background is in WHFRP terms. Note that some of the suggestions are for classes that I ultimately decided not to use. Some may work better as variants found in the Power books (a battlerage fighter instead of barbarian, for example)

[sblock=WFRP Careers to 4E Classes]
Note: These are just suggestions. Let me know if I've missed something obvious or if you have an alternate take on one of these.

I've based the 4E class selections on what we know is prohibited (Psionic and Shadow at this point). I'm not listing PHB3 classes, except the Runepriest (which has been discussed already).

Agitator: Bard, Rogue (Cha), or Warlord (Cha)
Apprentice Wizard: Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard
Bailiff: Fighter or Warlord (any) (Paladin, maybe?)
Barber-Surgeon: This one is kinda tough. Rogue (Cha) maybe? Warlord (Cha)?
Boatman: Fighter or Rogue (any)
Bodyguard: Fighter (any) (Paladin, maybe?)
Bone Picker: Barbarian or Warden
Bounty Hunter: Ranger or Rogue
Burgher: Bard? Warlord (Int)?
Camp Follower: Any non-spellcaster, really
Charcoal-Burner: see Camp Follower
Coachman: Ranger or Rogue
Entertainer: Bard or Rogue
Envoy: Eladrin or Elf Bard or Rogue (maybe even a Swordmage or spellcaster class)
Estalian Diestro: Fighter or Rogue (Ranger, maybe)
Ferryman: Fighter or Rogue (Brutal)
Fieldwarden: Halfling Ranger or Rogue
Fisherman: Fighter, Rogue, or Warden (maybe?)
Grave Robber: Rogue (I could see Warlock taking this career)
Hedge Wizard: Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard
Hunter: Ranger
Initiate: Cleric, Invoker, or Paladin
Jailer: Fighter (possibly Barbarian or Warden)
Kislevite Kossar: Barbarian or Warden
Kithband Warrior: Elf Ranger
Marine: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, or Warden (possibly Paladin?)
Mercenary: Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, or Warden (possibly Paladin?)
Messenger: Ranger or Rogue (Bard maybe?)
Militiaman: Fighter (Paladin or Warden maybe?)
Miner: Fighter (Warden maybe?)
Noble: Bard or Rogue (possibly other melee classes)
Norse Berserker: Barbarian or Warden
Outlaw: Ranger or Rogue (Barbarian maybe?)
Outrider: Ranger or Rogue
Peasant: Any non-spellcaster, really
Pit Fighter: Barbarian, Fighter, or Warden (Ranger maybe)
Protagonist: Fighter or Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel)
Rat Catcher: Ranger or Rogue (Warlock maybe)
Roadwarden: Ranger (Barbarian or Warden maybe)
Rogue: Rogue (duh)
Runebearer: Dwarf Cleric or Runepriest (Avenger or Invoker maybe)
Scribe: Wizard (maybe?)
Seaman: Fighter or Warden (melee Ranger, maybe?)
Servant: Any non-spellcaster, really
Shieldbreaker: Dwarf Fighter, Paladin or Warden
Smuggler: Rogue (Bard maybe)
Soldier: Fighter (any) (Ranger maybe)
Squire: Fighter or Paladin
Student: Bard or Wizard (maybe)
Thief: Rogue
Thug: Fighter or Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel)
Toll Keeper: Fighter, Paladin, or Warden
Tomb Robber: Rogue (possibly Bard, Ranger, or even Warlock)
Tradesman: Any non-spellcaster, really
Troll Slayer: Dwarf Barbarian or Warden
Vagabond: Barbarian, Ranger, or Warden
Valet: Any non-spellcaster, really
Watchman: Fighter or Ranger (possibly Barbarian or Warden)
Woodsman: Ranger
Zealot: Avenger, Cleric, Invoker, or Paladin

Due to the differences in "magic commonality" between WFRP and 4E, it was hard to find places for certain classes (Avenger, Bard, Invoker, Shaman, and Swordmage, in particular). There are places where you could certainly make an argument for these classes, but for the most part, I've left them out of the above.

These are just the starting careers from the main WFRP book. There are quite a few more starting careers in other WFRP books.
[/sblock]

Equipping your character:
Assume the standard 100gp and shop accordingly. No unusual materials allowed, it's all just plain and simple stuff. I will be posting firearms options shortly. Money will be the warhammer currency - 1 Gold Crown = 20 Silver Shillings = 12 Copper Pence.

[sblock=Languages]
The common language is Old Worlder, that you can all speak.

Racial languages include Elf, Dwarf, Giantish and Greenskin, and if you are non-human you also speak your own language (halflings have no racial tongue).

Extra-nationals to the Empire may also speak their own language. As far as I can tell, Old Worlder seems to cover pretty much everyone but it seems reasonable to have Bretonnian, Estalian, Tilean, Norscan, Kislevite and Arabic at least (i.e. French, Spanish, Italian, Norwegian/Swedish, Russian/Serbo-Croat and, er, Arabic respectively). Many alchemical and magical tracts are often written in Arabic.

Guilds and societies also have their own "language", although these are usually a mix of technical jargon and secret signs that allow members to recognise each other. Each trade guild has its own variant of "Guilder" (eg Guilder - Herbalist's Guild, Guilder - Merchant's Guild), and anyone with formal military trading may know "Battle Tongue", a form of communication for delivering orders in an abbreviated form, or via signs. Thieves will often know their own specialised Guilder language, which places more emphasis on secret signs and silent communication. Although it is hard to conduct a full conversation in the Thieves sign language, it can be used to convey a hidden subtext. "Signs" also means markings on buildings and such to denote easy marks, safe houses, and so on. Finally the ancient Druid sect has its own form of language, mostly used for rituals.

"Arcane" is the language of magic, and anyone with formal magical training may know this system used for writing grimoires and scrolls, and for speaking incantations.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Insanity]
I'm going to use a variant of the original WHFRP insanity rules. Each time your character suffers from a fear effect (although only once per encounter) he gains 1 insanity point. Each time he gets an insanity point, roll 1d6. If the value is equal or less than his insanity point total he develops an insanity. His insanity points drop back to 0, to begin accrual again.

Unlike the Call of Cthulhu style system, your character's resistance to further shocks isn't gradually chipped away (in fact, it will increase as Will increases), but accumulated horrors will have an effect. Note that this only works for magical fear effects - demons and other terrors will un-nerve your character, but they are not driven mad by finding body parts and other gruesome, but mundane, unpleasantness.

Effects of insanities to be decided...
[/sblock]

[sblock=Guns]
The Old World setting includes a number of unreliable gunpowder weapons, still limited in use but perhaps growing in popularity. Most are the equivalent of wheellock technology and have the following game stats:

All are military ranged weapons with the high critical feature and a load time of one standard action (which could be reduced by feats).

Pistol, one-handed, 30gp, prof+2, dmg 1d10, range 10/30, weight 1lb, small
Long Gun, two-handed, 35gp, prof+2, dmg 1d12, range 20/50, weight 3lb
Blunderbuss, two-handed, 30gp, prof+2, dmg 2d6, range 5/20, weight 3lb

Powder and Shot (10) cost 1gp. A blunderbuss can use improvised shot (although still needs a powder charge), but this increases its unreliability (see below).

All gunpowder weapons have the "unreliable" feature. Whenever you roll a 1 on an attack, the gun has misfired in some way. Roll again and compare your result to the table below:

1 Boom! The weapon explodes in your hands. You suffer a critical hit (as if it were 1st level) and the weapon is destroyed.
2-5 Bang! The weapon backfires. You suffer weapon damage and the weapon is destroyed.
6-10 Phut! The powder fizzles in the pan rather than explode. You lose the powder charge and must reload.
11-20 Click! The mechanism jams, requiring a minor action to rectify. You do not lose the powder or shot.

If using improvised shot in a blunderbuss (nails, pottery shards etc). then the weapon suffers a misfire in an attack roll of 1-2, even if this mean the attack would normally hit, and subtract 5 from the misfire roll (minimum 1)
[/sblock]

[sblock=Gods of the Old World]
Sigmar Heldenhammer - legendary founder of the Empire, whose birth was presaged by a twin-tailed comet, and who wields the dwarven hammer Ghal-Maraz (Skullsplitter). The Grand Theogenist and the next two highest ranking priests of Sigmar are all Imperial Electors, giving the cult of Sigmar the most political clout of any of the religions.

Ulric - god of winter and wolves, popular in the north of the Empire, particularly the city of Middenheim. Considered chief of the older gods, and there is some friction between his worshippers and those of Sigmar.

Manann - god of the sea, and by extension sea trade, popular in the port city of Marienburg and roughly equal to Ulric.

Morr - god of the dead, a complex character with a grim but necessary duty. Morr is also considered to be the sender of dreams, and is the patron of illusionists.

Shallya - The Merciful. Goddess of healing and protector of the sick.

Verena - goddess of learning, her symbol is the owl and her temples are often attached to libraries. Several of the great universities (Altdorf and Nuln) consider her their patron.

Myrmidia - goddess of war, depicted as defender of the nation and protector of soldiers, a tactician more than a warrior.

Ranald - Trickster, taken as patron by thieves throughout the Empire.

Taal - the Horned God, brother of Ulric and ruler of the wild.

Rhya - Mother Goddess, wife of Taal and goddess of fertility.

The Old Faith - the religion of the druids, the personification of nature. Many aspects have been subsumed by Taal, Rhya, Ulric and Manann and there are few adherents to this ancient faith left.

Grungni - the primary dwarven god, master of the forge.
[/sblock]

Other house-rule notes to follow.

[sblock=Original blurb]
An idea I'm kicking around, having recently re-acquired the excellent Enemy Within campaign for Warhammer FRP, and also finally laying my hands on 4th Ed. D&D, to run one using the other.

For those of you who don't know it, The Enemy Within was a campaign for Warhammer FRP from the late 80s, a series of pleasingly non-linear adventures centred around chaos cults attempting to destabilise The Empire, a setting roughly equivalent to a late mediaevel Germany, or Holy Roman Empire. If you Google "Warhammer Old World" you'll get more detail on the setting, although mostly from the wargame version.

It's a great fun campaign, full of intrigue, wierdoes, bar-fights and bad Anglo-German puns and has been voted best RPG campaign of all time by Cassus Belli magazine.

But wait Simon, I hear, surely Warhammer FRP is a gritty system set in a "grim world of perilous adventure", whereas D&D4 is all video-gamey and full of heroic characters?

Well...

For one thing, play experience with WFRPG (1st Ed) showed me that actually, characters can still become annoyingly powerful quite easily. Elves with Initiative scores that mean they act twice before anyone else has twitched, fighters with Toughness scores that can shrug off most attacks. Second, the novelty of a rat-catcher, a begger, a tax collector and a student going off on adventures wears off fairly easily. Shallow though it may be, players do seem to like their characters being maybe a tiny bit heroic compared to the rest of the world.

For another, it seems to me that D&D4 isn't that egregious, particularly if one stays within the "heroic" tier. And actually, some things seem to match quite well between the systems. They use the same alignment system, the linear rather than the orthogonal. Rituals seem closer to WH magic than traditional D&D. Both systems are fairly simple at core. I think more people will own a copy of the D&D4 rules than they will WHFRP, and it will give me a chance to try my hand at running D&D4.

There are also some houserules that give more of a gritty WH feel. Characters will be materially very poor compared to typical D&D. Magic items are extremely rare, even potions and the like. There are no wierd and wonderful types of armour, although some alchemical equipment still seems appropriate. I'll probably use some kind of sanity mechanic (closer to the WH version that the Cthulhu style version). I'll probably also use the Taint rules of OA/HoH/UA etc. (sounds like someone being sick...) as originally in WH certain types of magic (Necromancy and Demonology, if I recall correctly) tend to make you warped and corrupted.

Any character class from PHB and PHB2 seems viable (except Chaos Sorcerers, which sound too much like The Enemy for a PC class. Warlocks may need to watch out for witch-hunters too). Character race are limited to Human, Elf (plus Wood Elf), Halfling, Dwarf and Half-Elf. I can't recall if half-elves exist in WH, but it's probably harmless to include them. I may also include Shifters because, even thought there's no precedent and they may be mistaken for Chaos beastmen, there's something about them (perhaps an association with the Old Faith and an earlier, more primitive, time that is losing to progress) that makes them feel like they belong in the setting.

For the moment, this is just to see if anyone would be interested in playing in such a game. Full-on recruitment, character design etc. will come once I've got some replies, and sorted out the rules a bit more.
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Insight

Adventurer
I'm a big WFRP fan and never got to play the Enemy Within campaign. I would love to get in on this. I'm also a big 4E fan, so this would work perfectly for me. Maybe there's a Rat Catcher background somewhere... :p
 

Dr Simon

Explorer
I will be definitely be using the background traits of PHB2, I'm sure we could figure out something for rat-catcher :)

The other cool thing about the Enemy Within that I forgot to mention: excellent player hand-outs and evocative illustrations.

Edit: The other other thing I forgot to mention is that the Paragon paths remind me of Advanced Careers, moreso than prestige classes.
 
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Theroc

First Post
Never played the Warhammer tabletops, but I really enjoyed Warhammer online's feel...

I'd be willing to give it a shot.
 

Shayuri

First Post
Argh! Normally I'd jump at this, cuz I like Warhammer's fluff, and 4e's crunch!

But alas...I am at my limit. Should you have openings later, and should I finish a game, or have on die on me...then I will jump.
 

Insight

Adventurer
I will be definitely be using the background traits of PHB2, I'm sure we could figure out something for rat-catcher :)

I swear I have seen Camp Follower in the Character Builder :p

The other cool thing about the Enemy Within that I forgot to mention: excellent player hand-outs and evocative illustrations.

Yeah, those are always nice.

Edit: The other other thing I forgot to mention is that the Paragon paths remind me of Advanced Careers, moreso than prestige classes.

Unfortunately, you can only do one of them in 4E. And they're a bit easier to access in 4E. I always liked the career system in WFRP and wish it would reappear in some other game system since WFRP 3rd ed has abandoned it from what I can tell.
 

Dr Simon

Explorer
Never played the Warhammer tabletops, but I really enjoyed Warhammer online's feel.

I think Warhammer the wargame is a bit more spikey-bits and high fantasy than Warhammer the role-playing game, particularly the TEW campaign (has been described as D&D meets Call of Cthulhu). That said, the dwarven troll-slayer wouldn't be out of place in the modern D&D aesthetic.
 

Padreigh

First Post
Hm. One my faouvrite campaigns (although I only played a little bit of it, converted to an other system) meets one of my least-liked systems.

You sure about shifters and warlocks? The Empire is arcanophobic and xenophobic to the extreme ... even College Wizards have to tread very careful and anything looking remotely like a mutant or beastman would end up at the stake quicker than you could say "Sigmar protects!" :)

If I might make a suggestion, if you really want to use 4th E?

Stick with Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling (although you might want to modify halflings a bit). The basic fighting classes should work, but Clerics and Wizards should be the only spellcasters. Paladins are borderline (maybe as Templars)

I'll be watching this with interest and might consider joining if you'll have me (my liking for the Enemy within and the WRFP background way outweighs my dislike for 4. E :D)
 


Insight

Adventurer
You sure about shifters and warlocks? The Empire is arcanophobic and xenophobic to the extreme ... even College Wizards have to tread very careful and anything looking remotely like a mutant or beastman would end up at the stake quicker than you could say "Sigmar protects!" :)

AGREED :D

If I might make a suggestion, if you really want to use 4th E?

Stick with Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling (although you might want to modify halflings a bit). The basic fighting classes should work, but Clerics and Wizards should be the only spellcasters. Paladins are borderline (maybe as Templars)

Yeah, I agree with limiting the classes and races for PCs.

Half-Elf might be do-able, although they don't exist in the WFRP game. I'm not an expert on Warhammer lore, so maybe Elves Elfs and Humans can't procreate. Of course, Skaven exist in WFRP 2, but I doubt you'll want any of those running around.

I would suggest:

Races
Dwarf
Eladrin (maybe)
Elf
Halfling
Half-Elf (maybe)
Human

Classes
Martial (all)
Divine (all -- though limiting Runepriest to Dwarfs would make sense)
Arcane: Wizard only
Psionic: None
Primal: Not sure about these. Barbarian would make sense for Troll Slayer and so forth.
Shadow: None
 

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