D&D 5E (2014) [OOC] Uller's Out of the Abyss

[Uller]

Sorry. I didn't notice your persuasion roll above before my last post.

Being a "Yes but/and" sort of DM I think we need to pause here and talk about what you are all trying to do. I don't want you waste a good roll on me misunderstanding what you are hoping to accomplish. It seems like one of those cases where the PC is good at something that the player wants to accomplish but the player(s) might not know how best to go about it. I want to be sure I understand what that is. Otherwise things might seem railroady if I get it wrong or could spiral out of control very fast. Right now we are on the razors edge.

From where I sit we now have three things going on.

1) Surana is on the edge of a murderous rage over the death of Turvy. If she's not talked down she's probably going to attack Ploop or the nearest kuo-toa.

2) Ezraen is steadfast on staying the course and his hoping Surana will choose to as well. Orsik is willing to fight but only if thats the last resort. He'd rather live than die and he thinks fighting means death.

3) Erevan wants to talk Ploop into not going to war with Blopp but instead reconcile with her. His hope seems to be in setting things right between all three camps will get coolet heads to prevail.

There is no way a persuasion check convinces an archpriest to give up his god right after he has convinced his followers to launch a civil war. It'd be harder than convincing a prominent political leader to give up his ideology right before election night. Even if it worked the effect on his followers would be a disaster. So I think you need to use Shuushar's guidance on how to talk him into a new path. Shuushar understands the nature of kuo-toa gods. Ploop might not buy it. That might have something to do with why Shuushar lived in exile. He can be convinced, I think, to not go to war with Blopp. But not in a way that puts him at a disadvantage.

However, that can't work with a raging barabarian about to start a fight. So even if you convince Ploop to change course it is up to SunGold what it'll take to talk her down.

So let's take a moment for each of you to let me (and everyone if it's not a secret) know what you are hoping your character can accomplish while still acting within character. If it is a secret you can PM me in addition to posting here.

If disaster ensues and you all (or some of you) have a good death then so be it. That's part of the fun.



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[JustinCase]

Yeah, things are getting messy.

Erevan is both trying to save his own skin (and those of his friends) but also trying to act like the good guy. Perhaps he could take back the words about denouncing the goddess, but still keeping to the idea of reconsiliation with Ploop's daughter.

But if Surana starts killing fish dudes, persuasion and diplomacy are worthless. Could be fun, though.

 

[Uller]

Okay. If your goal is to save your own skin, those your friends and act like the good guy I'm not sure how convincing him to change plans advances that (other than make you look like a dead good guy) because it leaves in place the barbarian that is about to launch. I could use your persuasion roll and your speech to rule that your offer intrigues him enough to not want you to all die because he wants to hear what you have to hear what you have to say (Shuushar will have to help a bit here...he doesn't care about his daughter...he's a fish. He has LOTS of children...he cares about them as a whole).

But that still leaves us with the barbarian dilemma.

Topsy is waking up. I'm trying to keep the NPCs out of this as much as I can. But she can be used by you or Ez to lower the tension I think. SunGold can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Surana really needs a reason not to die. The thing that drives her most is a protective instinct. If Topsy dies then Turvy's death was for nothing. If you all (Drum, Derendil, Eldeth...) die then it was all a net loss. That's how her personality appears to me, anyway. So if Erevan is going to focus on gettig Ploop to stand down, someone will have to get Surana to stand down if that's possible (I don't like Charisma check roles against PCs...players always get to choose how their character behaves unless magically compelled)

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[SunGold]

Got Surana right. From her point of view, Ploop's vague accusation of some undefined crime is BS. We've only just gotten to Sloobludop, and what little time we've spent here we've been surrounded by his guards and minions. How could anyone have broken the law? And if someone DID manage to, shouldn't there be a wronged party to prove what happened? Or at least say what happened?

"Just trust me that one of you did something worth killing your friend" is a hilariously unconvincing argument from someone known to be desperate, offer lives to his god, and go back on his word. That a gurgling god mentioned "the sacrifice" does not help.

She's enraged by the injustice. That he not only did this, but did it under the guise of helping. That he's so casual and smug about it, "here's the sh*t I promised you, now let it go and be good."

There's definitely guilt and maybe even a bit of a deathwish mixed in as well. Turvy died scared and in pain because we assured him everything would be ok if he trusted this monster. We sent him to the slaughter with encouraging smiles.

She thinks Ez is being at best a willing patsy and at worst a coward. After what Erevan just did, she realizes she is not, in fact, the craziest member of the party. I don't see either of them saying anything to pull her back from this.

The only outs right now look like Topsy, Orsik, or Shuushar. She needs to either:

- Realize she might get someone she cares about killed even if they don't join the fight. Uller is correct about her protective instinct; she's definitely Bear Totem as in mama bear...but she's still just a raging animal sometimes. (I'm so bummed Drum isn't here; this would be easy.) Right now she does not care for either of the elves, but Shuushar is kind and gentle, Orsik has been infinitely helpful to her by being the literal light in the dark, and Topsy has obviously been through enough. Or

- Be convinced that Ploop speaks the truth. This seems almost impossible, but she does trust Shuushar, so maybe there's something he can say, having known Ploop a long time.

 

[SunGold]

For clarification: she does like and care about both elves in the long term; she's just mighty pissed in the moment about their reactions to this. Ez for reasons already stated; Erevan because in the face of her righteous fury he basically gave a command to pipe down and then spouted a bunch of kumbaya nonsense.

IOW, she doesn't hate them, but she values their lives as little as her own right now.

 

[Uller]

Okay. This gives me something to go on with regard to the two of you. One thing I am having trouble with is I have NPCs both in and out of the party. This is why I dont like "DM PCs". I worry that I may subconsciously push my own agenda by having NPCs start behaing of like mind.

I'll wait until we hear from DMAesh before I post. Topsy is waking up. Shuushar will help Erevan a bit. Orsik might chime in a bit. In the end though PC actions are your choice.



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[DMAesh]

I completely understand, but Ezraen is a broken man right now, clinging to all he knows (which would be his recent Oath of Devotion). In a moment of compassion, he rushed to ease pain, but also invariably crossed a boundary that he shouldn't have (which I played up because of his lack of Wisdom). I do believe that my mistake in using the term 'sacrifice' was a factor of an imperfect memory, and played it up, because I chose, deliberately, not to look up the message before responding, and may have spurred Surana into a misconception. That being said, I think that Ezraen looked at it that way as well.

Ez is not a strong man, neither in will nor in physicality. He is a former criminal that was given a second chance at life, only to end up here. He is in danger of failing this test and will fall without help.

Ezraen also doesn't know how to share what he knows. For the others to believe him, they need faith. After our experiences in the underdark, he wouldn't expect any of them to have any. He is thankful that Topsy is alive, he is broken-up over Turvy's death, he is still shaken up about Yukyuk and Spiderbait, and Klep too. He thought he could be the glue to hold this ragtag band together and keep them going, but he honestly doesn't think he can.

Talk about a crisis of self! Honestly, I can see this going South, but I would rather that happen than us make decisions that are forced and not true to character. That being said, I still think that there is a way out of our debacle...

 

[Uller]

Next problem. I've been operating under the assumption that Drum is with you. I know I neglected to note that earlier. That was an over sight on my part. I meant to mention that the kuo-toa really haven't noticed him hanging out in your back pack. Without himIno one is talking to anyone. Shuushar and Topsy speak under common. don't want that to change things. Suggestions? Maybe Orsik also speaks under common?

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[DMAesh]

Regarding NPCs, they are there to give us guidance sometimes, but as Matt Colville says, you need to keep the signal-to-noise ratio up so that we learn that not everything they say is the best thing to do.

As for Drum, maybe he is in Erevan's disguised pack? Then we still can talk?

 

[SunGold]

Oh, well shoot. I didn't think about the language barrier thing.

Surana's seeing red right now, so she's too preoccupied to notice Topsy waking up. If she got some sort of combo of Drum's fear and the realization that Topsy was about to wake up to her brother's corpse, I do believe that'd be enough to snap her out of it in favor of taking them both back to camp while you less-angry folk talk diplomacy.