D&D 5E OP Cantrip?

[DND_Reborn]

Still crazy OP.

With the exception of Quicken, cantrips take the place of spending an action to cast a spell, they don't boost them.

This gives you a bonus to possibly a whole pile of attacks. It is super duper insane true strike, and that is only one of the things it does.

You know, I was going to compare this revised cantrip to Shield Master.

Both are bonus actions
Both require a roll or check to impose disadvantage
One has a range, the other is melee
One lasts until the target's turn, the other only until the end of your turn

Now, we all know Shield Master is supposed to only allow the bonus action after the attack, but many groups play it the other way, allowing the bonus action prior to taking the attack action.

I don't really see this revised version of the cantrip as being any more OP than the Shield Master feature to knock an opponent prone.

 

[NotAYakk]

Shield master is a feat. It requires the Attack Action, does not stack with spell casting. It requires adjacent. It requires a shield and a str build, blocking GWM/SS damage boosts. It is on one target. It is size limited.

This requires no feat. This is ranged. This stacks with spells. This hits more than one target. This doesn't require a low offence build and str investment. This is only limited by immunity to blindness (more rare than huge size). This hist multiple targets. This nullifies OAs. This allows escape and hidng.

Cantrips are balanced assuming they cost you the attack or cast a spell action.

 

[Esker]

Yep, too strong. Make it an action, CON save (like the Blindness spell), and I'd still use it as my go-to at-will option over anything else.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Shield master is a feat. It requires the Attack Action, does not stack with spell casting. It requires adjacent. It requires a shield and a str build, blocking GWM/SS damage boosts. It is on one target. It is size limited.

This requires no feat. This is ranged. This stacks with spells. This hits more than one target. This doesn't require a low offence build and str investment. This is only limited by immunity to blindness (more rare than huge size). This hist multiple targets. This nullifies OAs. This allows escape and hidng.

Cantrips are balanced assuming they cost you the attack or cast a spell action.

Yes, Shield Master is a feat. It also offers two additional very good features when you have it so of course it has a higher "cost".

Shield master imposes the prone condition until the target's turn, allowing allies to benefit from the target being prone as well as the attacker for tables who allow the bonus action to precede the attack action (which many do IME). It allows OA by the prone target, even if at disadvantage. For a build around Shield Master, that already blocks other build types, so... not seeing your point there.

The revised cantrip (with my posted comment, which I guess you ddin't read?) would also target only 1 creature. It also only allows you to benefit from it since it ends at the end of your turn. It requires one of your limited cantrip choices (most classes only get 4-6).

And so what if allows you to try to escape or hide? The target would still get an OA even if with disadvantage (so it doesn't nullify OAs as you seem to think).

In comparing it to Warding Flare, it is powerful, but not OP. If certain elements still seem OP, you could reduce the range, I already suggest removing multiple targets at higher levels, even make it an action so stacks spells would have to be cantrips.

Overall, I think removing the additional targets at higher levels is enough to make this viable.

EDIT:

As others have said, my overall big concern is this would be a way to give yourself advantage on attacks or spells cast afterwards. So, a Rogue (Arcane Trickster) or MC would have a good chance to grant himself advantage for SA every round. That was why the design for Shield Master was for the bonus action shove to come after the attack action...

 

[Neonchameleon]

It feels as if it should be a standard action, trying to trade your turn for theirs while giving your allies advantage. As a bonus action it's ridiculously OP - as a standard it's situational (the best control condition is dead)

 

[NotAYakk]

Yes, Shield Master is a feat. It also offers two additional very good features when you have it so of course it has a higher "cost".

Shield master imposes the prone condition until the target's turn, allowing allies to benefit from the target being prone as well as the attacker for tables who allow the bonus action to precede the attack action (which many do IME). It allows OA by the prone target, even if at disadvantage. For a build around Shield Master, that already blocks other build types, so... not seeing your point there.

There are 4 melee weapon wielding layouts. DW, S+B, GW and Single weapon.

There are 2 melee stats -- Str and Dex.

Shield Master restricts you to investing in Str (to get the shove), and to S+B melee. This locks you out of high-damage GWM and SS feats. These are significant costs.

This cantrip does none of that.

I can use this on a GWM build. I can use this on a pure caster to grant advantage on my spell attacks. I can use this on a SS build. Whole piles of things you can use this for that wouldn't be possible for shield master.

I mean, shield master can be used with spell attacks, but now your character has to invest in strength and athletics and a feat and spell attack stat, and be adjacent to the foe: these are huge costs. With this? It costs you a utility cantrip and your bonus action for a plausible 30%+ increase in damage.

On almost every single melee build if given a chance to poach this, I would. On almost any caster? I'd want it. There is almost no downside to this cantrip, the price is dirt cheap, the payoff pretty good.

The revised cantrip (with my posted comment, which I guess you ddin't read?) would also target only 1 creature. It also only allows you to benefit from it since it ends at the end of your turn. It requires one of your limited cantrip choices (most classes only get 4-6).

There are many versions flying around. The one I was talking about was the bonus action, blind only on the turn, higher levels more targets.

The more targets was just a cherry on top of an OP Sunday.

And so what if allows you to try to escape or hide? The target would still get an OA even if with disadvantage (so it doesn't nullify OAs as you seem to think).

"You can make an opportunity Attack when a Hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach "
Blind cannot see. Cannot made OA. So it acts as a disengage action (if it hits) as well.

In comparing it to Warding Flare [...]

Warding Flare is a class feature, not a cantrip. Warding flare doesn't impose blindness. Warding flare doesn't grant advantage. Comparing this to warding flare is pointless, because the two have nearly nothing in common, other than not working on targets immune to blindness.

As others have said, my overall big concern is this would be a way to give yourself advantage on attacks or spells cast afterwards.

So your overall big concern is ... the main thing the cantrip does. Wow.

 

[Dausuul]

Still crazy OP.

With the exception of Quicken, cantrips take the place of spending an action to cast a spell, they don't boost them.

This gives you a bonus to possibly a whole pile of attacks. It is super duper insane true strike, and that is only one of the things it does.

I agree. As long as the cantrip is castable as a bonus action, it serves as a strict upgrade to your existing attack cantrips. It's OP for that reason alone, even for a straight single-class sorcerer. Add in multiclassing and feats, and it's busted as hell.

There's just not a good way to make this spell work as a bonus action.

 

[NotAYakk]

I agree. As long as the cantrip is castable as a bonus action, it serves as a strict upgrade to your existing attack cantrips. It's OP for that reason alone, even for a straight single-class sorcerer. Add in multiclassing and feats, and it's busted as hell.

There's just not a good way to make this spell work as a bonus action.

I mean, if it also blinded you, it would be closer to balanced.

Especially if you use the rule that "you get advantage if the foe cannot see you" only works if you can see the foe. (by RAW, two people in pitch darkness attack with strait dice; with this variant, they both attack at disadvantage, and if one can see the other while the other cannot, they gain advantage on their attack)

Then the core use would be a "save or allow caster to disengage" as a bonus action. Could still be strong, but not obviously OP.

 

[BluejayJunior]

Compare it to True Strike. Also a cantrip, but uses an Action. Your next attack is at advantage. Only affects a single attack and just for you.
This 3PP cantrip costs a bonus action and gives the target disadvantage on their attacks, gives you advantage on all your attacks, and gives your party members advantage on their attacks.
As others have said, it's a 2nd level spell getting used as a bonus action cantrip. Way OP.

 

[Mistwell]

nevermind