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D&D 5E Open Letter to Mike Mearls from a pro game dev

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Solving game design issues in D&D is actually rather trivial for someone in my profession. I solve much harder bugs all day, every day, 12 hours a day, for years at a time, and ship games played by thousands of times more players than each iteration of D&D ever has.

Apparently it isn't trivial given how irrelevant your claims are. I hope you're a better computer game playtester than you are at tabletop RPGs.

Now explain, in physical terms, how a sword attack can deal damage on a miss. Like, damage. Not tiring you, which is NOT damage.

Ah, here's one of your problems. You think that hit points are equivalent to damage. So when someone is on 1hp they have been seriously hurt despite suffering no penalties in any other form. Damage on a miss makes no sense if you have shock and wound penalties - but AD&D hit points don't have anything else associated with getting cut open to them. Hit points as damage make very little sense. Of course there are many people who'd strongly disagree with Mr. Gygax and myself on this point (Gygax was very clear about this). But any claim that revolves round hit points are damage is incredibly contentious because hit points do not behave like damage.

The physics of why archery cannot result in damage on a miss are the exact same (basic newtonian physics), as those for melee attacks. The EXACT same. We're talking, basic collision detection modelling here. Momentum transfer.

And now you're ignoring what's going on in the game world to make your supposed point. If I am shooting a bow at someone I am likely to cleanly miss them if I don't hit. On the other hand if I am swinging a two handed sword at someone a few feet away I need to be utterly inept if being on target for their centre of mass is a problem. Try it on a tree trunk. A longbow from sixty feet away, and a broom handle from five feet away. You might well miss with the long bow but if you miss with the broom handle I'm probably going to laugh at you.

So clearly what is going on on a melee miss and a ranged miss is not necessarily the same. On a melee miss the fighter is either more inept than an overweight nerd with a broom handle and no training or experience or their opponent is dodging or blocking somehow. Otherwise to miss would be stupid.

And momentum transfer? That's a minor issue. The momentum of an arrow is tiny. A baseball pitcher can throw a 140g fastball at about 100mph. An arrow travels at twice this speed but weighs only 20g, meaning the arrow has less momentum than the baseball. And if it hits me the baseball is going to transfer more of its momentum into me because it will stop - the broadhead arrow won't. But I'd still rather be hit by the baseball.

Nobody has ever died of a few seconds of strenuous activity, even an old man with a bum ticker and a harem would last longer than a kobold vs a fighter with GWF.

OK. Let's look at a fight between a strength 18 greatweapon fighter with the feat and a kobold.

The fighter swings, aiming for just below the Kobold's centre of mass. The Kobold can't jump high enough to leap the blade, dropping flat wouldn't help (the fighter just has to roll their wrist slightly to change the line of the sword; this is always going to be faster than the kobold falling). Forward and back the fighter is ready for and has longer legs. So it does the sensible thing and blocks with its shield. Sword on shield rather than sword on kobold. A clear miss, right? After all, that's why shields add to AC.

No. Not a clear miss. That greatsword sword might have only hit wood and hide, but it still has a lot of momentum. Where does it go? Into the kobold. The kobold is about 3' tall - or smaller than an average 2 and a half year old boy. Do you really think that just raising a shield is going to fully stop a blow from someone who could make a competitive weightlifter and who specialises in beating people down with brute force? When you've only got the size and mass of a two year old? Really?

You might have tested computer games, but until you can tell me what hit points are (hint: it's one of those subjects no one can agree on) and have experience of the difference between swordfighting and archery, and can visualise how serious a disadvantage a 3' tall person is in in a swordfight, especially against brute force/beatdown attacks your complaints are all going to be irrelevant.
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Y'know we have dozens of professional game designers here at EN World - both tabletop and CRPG. You'd be amazed at who hangs out here. Some of them, I imagine, may be cringing a bit right now. We have folks from game companies big and small. We have world leaders in tabletop game design - especially in RPGs. Some of the best game designers and freelancers in the world hang out here.

I like to think we're pretty damn qualified, as a group.

We've also had dozens of threads on this very topic, some hundreds of posts long. It's far from a new topic. For your delight and amusement, I give you:



It's really not a particularly unique point; and the OP doesn't particularly stand out in his qualifications amongst some of the folks he's lambasting with them. I think if he knew the identities behind some of the screen names here, he might be somewhat surprised. And embarrassed, perhaps.
 
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OK, that's it, I am reversing my prior opinion. I now want Damage on a Miss in the game. I want it so, so much now. I think I will email Mearls (whose email address I do have) and tell him. I won't need to remind him of my credentials - he already knows I'm awesome.

I am with mistwell. When i heard of damage on a miss, i didn't like it. But after this letter, i am in love with the concept. In fact, if it isn't in next, that is going to be a deal breaker for me :)
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Those same guys asked for public feedback, and they are humans, we all make mistakes. This is one of them.

And this is why I said you were a year and a half late. They don't want public feedback anymore. That ended back in September. So your post is a day late and a dollar short.

But I suppose you already know this. Unless of course being a six-figure game designer means not being able to keep a schedule or knowing what timelines are. ;)
 



marketingman

Explorer
I did not ollow all the rules of Gygax, Arnson, Holmes, Moldvay, so why start know Plus for someone who was not going to post again all those replies really scream for attention.

Sorry I remember a Man in a small town fixing shoes to help make extra money. and his impact on the world of gaming.:)
 

darjr

I crit!
eh, My opinion hasn't changed regardless of this letter.

Damage on a miss should be removed.

Damage on a miss depends on a specific definition of what HP is and that limit's play styles to ones that I don't wan't to play D&D in.

Also at 1HP it is rather jaring in my opinion.
 

herrozerro

First Post
This open letter is old, I think. It was posted here last year some time, or something very like it was (though under a different user name): I remember the "Bad for America" tagline, because then as now my response is "Well, I live in Australia".

EDIT: Here are the two posts, under the user name "Burninator" (who is also by his/her own testimony an AAA game designer, perhaps closely related to @Gorgoroth?):

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...t-poll/page4&p=6211739&viewfull=1#post6211739

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...t-poll/page8&p=6212401&viewfull=1#post6212401

And jessicaT, Mtl_Knight and Gorniche(sp) on the WotC forums
 

herrozerro

First Post
There is one point that keeps getting ignored by the OP, D&D is an exception based game. Specific rules override general rules. If rules did not contradict each other then most of the game would not work.

In addition to this simple line in attach basics.

Resolve the attack.
After the DM has determined the situational modifiers that might apply, you make your attack roll as described below. If you hit, you roll damage, unless your attack specifies otherwise.

I don't know, having your attack deal damage on a miss would seem to specify otherwise.

So, TL;DR: Specific rules contradict general rules, nothing wrong with that.
 

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