Opening Shove, New Warlord at Will

[Patlin]

This looks like a pretty cool power, from the Martial Power excerpt. Here are my first thoughts on it.

It does no damage, but on a hit it pushes the target and then gives an ally you can see the opportunity to either make a basic melee attack on the target or shift int mod squares... 4 squares for my 1st level tactical warlord.

This would be great to:
1) Get a monster off a wounded ally and get the ally to safety.
2) Push a monster into a bad position and let your ally whack it.
3) Disrupt a grab (by striking either the monster OR your ally.)
4) Get your slow, heavilly armored defender into the thick of things.
or otherwise rearange the battlefield.

I'd previously intended to take a Warlord at will (Wolfpack Strike?) that allows an ally to shift 1 square before or after my attack as an effect, allowing a more subtle but more reliable manipulation of the battlefield, and of course more damage. I was going to skip Commander's strike, which also does more damage than this (and more reliably, with only one attack roll) but Opening Shove allows for a little bit of that flavor, which I otherwise wouldn't have.

Anyone else have thoughts on Opening Shove? Like it, hate it, see some flaw I'm missing?

 

[yesnomu]

Opening Shove is cool! We need more powers that don't do damage, it's a hole in the game currently. I especially like how it gives more tactical options, which helps eliminate the problem of multiple rounds of at-will use feeling repetitive.

Wizards is definitely getting more creative with at-will design, looking at this and the Barbarian.

 

[Victim]

I'd probably take it as a human since Viper's Strike hasn't seemed very useful so far. And most warlords will have the stats to use Commander's or Smash, but not both.

 

[DracoSuave]

Viper's Strike is an excellent At-will if your defender isn't a Fighter, but instead a Paladin or a Swordmage. Gives them the same level of stickiness.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Opening Shove is cool! We need more powers that don't do damage, it's a hole in the game currently. I especially like how it gives more tactical options, which helps eliminate the problem of multiple rounds of at-will use feeling repetitive.

This DOES do damage, it just does damage using another character's attack. And there's a reason they all have to do damage: If they don't, you aren't contributing to the defeat of the enemy.

It goes like this:

Fighter attacks, does 25 damage. Monster is now at 25.
Bard uses a power to give the fighter +2 to hit.
Cleric hits, doing 15 damage. Monster is now at 10.
Monster attacks and kills the fighter.

Now replace Bard with someone who did at least 10 damage and you have the problem. One class is now more useful than another.

The same thing applies even if the fighter gets a turn. Does the +2 help? It might. But the difference is, for all practical purpose, 0 damage. If the fighter hits, he does 25 more damage. If he misses, he does 0. He needs to give a bonus that is about equal to the damage that a party member would do in order to be a valuable member of the group.

 

[Nail]

Linky to Martial Powers excerpt?

 

[Shroomy]

Linky to Martial Powers excerpt?

Here you go.

 

[yesnomu]

This DOES do damage, it just does damage using another character's attack. And there's a reason they all have to do damage: If they don't, you aren't contributing to the defeat of the enemy.

Right, I know. But the way damage is done makes all the difference. Also, I like more powers that hamper enemies, rather than hurting them. Stuff like that one Warlock daily that lets you cancel enemy attacks, or Web. They contribute to the fight by making it easier for your party to finish them off.

The warlord is currently the closest thing to a pure "support class", and I'd like to see more of that. Ideally, there could be a class that never does damage directly, just helps everyone else do more.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Right, I know. But the way damage is done makes all the difference. Also, I like more powers that hamper enemies, rather than hurting them. Stuff like that one Warlock daily that lets you cancel enemy attacks, or Web. They contribute to the fight by making it easier for your party to finish them off.

The warlord is currently the closest thing to a pure "support class", and I'd like to see more of that. Ideally, there could be a class that never does damage directly, just helps everyone else do more.

It was partly because of commander's strike that I made the warlord the NPC leader for my 4 person group ... having both at-wills being "someone else attacks" is great for that purpose.

 

[Victim]

Viper's Strike is an excellent At-will if your defender isn't a Fighter, but instead a Paladin or a Swordmage. Gives them the same level of stickiness.

Well, not really, since other characters can't halt enemy movement on an OA. But I did get it to help our paladin defend, and it still didn't help much. Viper's Strike is really only going to be useful when you don't want to use another at will - using Wolf Pack to gain some flanking is going to be preferable when possible - AND the enemy shifts away from your ally.