Opinions on the non-PHB races?
- Thread starter Kobold Avenger
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Remathilis
Legend
I love Goliaths, Shadowswyfts, Neraphim Changelings, Warforged, Elan, Dromites, Spellscales, Uldra, and Aventi
I'm ok with Raptorans, Spikers, Hadozee, Neanderthals, Killoren, Half-Giants, and Kalashtar
I'm not at all a fan of Buomman, Shifters, Illumian, Maenads, Xeph, Dragonborn, or Wildren
I'm not too familair with Incarnum and I don't own Sandstorm
I'm ok with Raptorans, Spikers, Hadozee, Neanderthals, Killoren, Half-Giants, and Kalashtar
I'm not at all a fan of Buomman, Shifters, Illumian, Maenads, Xeph, Dragonborn, or Wildren
I'm not too familair with Incarnum and I don't own Sandstorm
Yair's elan fluff is excellent.
I think the xeph might be interesting if they were related to the shadowswyfts from the Planar Handbook. They're both very similar races.
Half-giants, by their fluff, were bred for generations by inhuman sorcerer-kings, so they wouldn't necessarily be even combinations of giant and human. It's very possible their masters made them weaker in order to ensure they could be controlled. As such, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that they only have a +2 strength. I probably wouldn't use them in anything but a Dark Sun or perhaps Planescape campaign, though.
Maenads might be interesting if they were tied into Greek mythology - perhaps they're descendents of the mad nymphs who follow Bacchus on his revels. Or, given the suggestion that they overthrew their deity, they might be tied with the Tiere from Planes of Conflict, descendents of the original race not banished to Carceri with the others.
I particularly like the gloamings from Underdark. Illumians are pretty cool, and I've actually come to accept spellscales (from Races of the Dragon). I hated spellscales at first because I was thinking of them from a Material Plane perspective - I couldn't imagine them fitting into Oerth. But I they fit perfectly into the City of Glass on the Elemental Plane of Water. I guess it's the same with illumians - they're a bit much to work into an existing material planar campaign, but they're a planar race anyway and they help flesh out the Plane of Shadow. And they have a grudge against the githyanki!
Anyway, yeah, I can see using a lot of the new races more easily if you're playing a crossplanar or crossworld game. Even the ones from Incarnum.
I think the xeph might be interesting if they were related to the shadowswyfts from the Planar Handbook. They're both very similar races.
Half-giants, by their fluff, were bred for generations by inhuman sorcerer-kings, so they wouldn't necessarily be even combinations of giant and human. It's very possible their masters made them weaker in order to ensure they could be controlled. As such, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that they only have a +2 strength. I probably wouldn't use them in anything but a Dark Sun or perhaps Planescape campaign, though.
Maenads might be interesting if they were tied into Greek mythology - perhaps they're descendents of the mad nymphs who follow Bacchus on his revels. Or, given the suggestion that they overthrew their deity, they might be tied with the Tiere from Planes of Conflict, descendents of the original race not banished to Carceri with the others.
I particularly like the gloamings from Underdark. Illumians are pretty cool, and I've actually come to accept spellscales (from Races of the Dragon). I hated spellscales at first because I was thinking of them from a Material Plane perspective - I couldn't imagine them fitting into Oerth. But I they fit perfectly into the City of Glass on the Elemental Plane of Water. I guess it's the same with illumians - they're a bit much to work into an existing material planar campaign, but they're a planar race anyway and they help flesh out the Plane of Shadow. And they have a grudge against the githyanki!
Anyway, yeah, I can see using a lot of the new races more easily if you're playing a crossplanar or crossworld game. Even the ones from Incarnum.
Ok. I don't own the books mentioned, but based on what I had read in the bookstore and seen online, I dislike/ban most of them and consider them a waste of space. Then again, I also dislike XPH, MoI, the Races of books and the Environment books (with the exception of Stormwrack).
Now, as to those races I found interesting.
Of the old established races, I like the Thri-kreen and the half-giant (albeit, the latter specifically limited to the Dark Sun setting).
I liked the Goliaths, but I doubt I would ever use them.
The orca like race from Stormwrack also looks interesting. However, as with the Goliath I would probably never use them.
As for Eberron, the changeling and shifters sound interesting. The warforged also sound interesting, but I would not want to see them, nor would I use them, outside of Eberron.
Now, as to those races I found interesting.
Of the old established races, I like the Thri-kreen and the half-giant (albeit, the latter specifically limited to the Dark Sun setting).
I liked the Goliaths, but I doubt I would ever use them.
The orca like race from Stormwrack also looks interesting. However, as with the Goliath I would probably never use them.
As for Eberron, the changeling and shifters sound interesting. The warforged also sound interesting, but I would not want to see them, nor would I use them, outside of Eberron.
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
I think the goliaths from Races of Stone have a pretty interesting culture. It's not too strange that it would be difficult for even novice players to get an understanding of how their goliath character would look at the world, but neither is it so shallow that experienced gamers can't find anything interesting to do with the race. Some people find their Powerful Build ability too strong, but I think it works fine if you understand that it's not usable or abusable with the Monkey Grip feat, et cetera.
Likewise, despite the general consensus that illumians look silly, I'm happy to admit that I find them interesting enough that I would consider using them in a setting where their presence as a secret offshoot of the human race would be appropriate. I thought their original symbol powers on the website were better, but they're not terrible now.
I think changelings and shifters both work pretty well outside of Eberron. Changelings, in particular, are well-suited to very urbanised settings and games which are heavy on the intrigue. Shifters, by way of contrast, work a little better in less-developed settings where their animalistic traits are thematically interesting. Of course, as written each presumes that doppelgangers and lycanthropes (or something similar) both exist in the setting, but it's easy enough to say they're extinct if you don't want to use them yourself, or that the races evolved or were created independently.
I'm fond of warforged - their roleplaying potential is excellent - but they have one problem from my perspective (no, it's not mechanical; I think concerns about their balance are overrated). To plausibly include warforged in your campaign, you have to assume that at least some people have the magical knowledge and power necessary to construct a fully-sentient artificial race.
I don't have that much to say about the other races you mentioned. The elan are somewhat interesting because they have the same potential as illumians for that "stranger among us" vibe, I suppose. I actually prefer the synads from Dragon Magazine (and later Complete Psionic) to either illumians or elans in this role, because they're more alien but their specific differences from humanity are better-justified.
Of course, the kalashtar from Eberron are similar to the synads in the sense of having differently-constructed minds, and can easily fill the "strangers among us" archetype if you drop the Eberron convention that they're relatively-easily recognised as a nonhuman race.
Dromites and xeph aren't inherently interesting as written, and neither are the four races from Magic of Incarnum, though at least the dusklings are more than just "funny-looking humans" and the azurin can fit in settings where humans and their closest variants (like aasimar and tieflings) dominate.
Raptorans have a good mechanic for giving a race flight without a Level Adjustment, but are culturally dull. In fact, adapting their Hit Dice-based advancement to true flight might solve the problem some have with shifters having to take shifter feats; if, instead, shifters gained additional bonus feats as their Hit Dice increased, it might be better-balanced.
All of the environmental races are pretty dull, especially the geographical variants of common races.
Likewise, despite the general consensus that illumians look silly, I'm happy to admit that I find them interesting enough that I would consider using them in a setting where their presence as a secret offshoot of the human race would be appropriate. I thought their original symbol powers on the website were better, but they're not terrible now.
I think changelings and shifters both work pretty well outside of Eberron. Changelings, in particular, are well-suited to very urbanised settings and games which are heavy on the intrigue. Shifters, by way of contrast, work a little better in less-developed settings where their animalistic traits are thematically interesting. Of course, as written each presumes that doppelgangers and lycanthropes (or something similar) both exist in the setting, but it's easy enough to say they're extinct if you don't want to use them yourself, or that the races evolved or were created independently.
I'm fond of warforged - their roleplaying potential is excellent - but they have one problem from my perspective (no, it's not mechanical; I think concerns about their balance are overrated). To plausibly include warforged in your campaign, you have to assume that at least some people have the magical knowledge and power necessary to construct a fully-sentient artificial race.
I don't have that much to say about the other races you mentioned. The elan are somewhat interesting because they have the same potential as illumians for that "stranger among us" vibe, I suppose. I actually prefer the synads from Dragon Magazine (and later Complete Psionic) to either illumians or elans in this role, because they're more alien but their specific differences from humanity are better-justified.
Of course, the kalashtar from Eberron are similar to the synads in the sense of having differently-constructed minds, and can easily fill the "strangers among us" archetype if you drop the Eberron convention that they're relatively-easily recognised as a nonhuman race.
Dromites and xeph aren't inherently interesting as written, and neither are the four races from Magic of Incarnum, though at least the dusklings are more than just "funny-looking humans" and the azurin can fit in settings where humans and their closest variants (like aasimar and tieflings) dominate.
Raptorans have a good mechanic for giving a race flight without a Level Adjustment, but are culturally dull. In fact, adapting their Hit Dice-based advancement to true flight might solve the problem some have with shifters having to take shifter feats; if, instead, shifters gained additional bonus feats as their Hit Dice increased, it might be better-balanced.
All of the environmental races are pretty dull, especially the geographical variants of common races.
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Wik
First Post
Hm. My 2 cents on a few of those races:
**GOLIATHS**
We have one in our group, and he's a damage MACHINE! While i never really was fascinated by them, when the goliath's player was looking through the books for a "heavy hitter" and found goliaths, he went nuts. And it's not just the rules behind the class - he loves the competition (and he makes a big point of "keeping score" with the dwarven fighter/dragon shaman in the party). In fact, he even focused on improving his climb skill, even though he traditionally focuses on imtimidate and similar skills.
**FERAL GARGUN**
I've always wanted to play one of these, but haven't got around to it, yet. I just think they look really cool. One of these days, I'm going to put them into a campaign world with only one or two other non-human races, in the hopes that one of my players decides to take it upon themselves to give these guys a chance. One thing we both hate are the goliath naming conventions - we scrapped that random name generator and just used the (much better) dwarven name generator.
**CATFOLK**
We have a catfolk rogue in our group right now. At 2nd level, she has a Dex of 22. She's pretty damn awesome. Actually, I think the race itself is only so-so, but that +4 dex really helped the player out. The neat thing about it is, the player isn't much of a power-builder. When we were making characters, she said "I want to make a pirate chick. Maybe a rogue, or something." So, she rolls her stats, and decides to play a rogue. Then, she's leafing through the books, and she comes upon Catfolk. Did I mention she loves cats? She does. It took her all of three seconds to decide to be a catfolk, and she's loving the character.
**ENVIRONMENT RACES**
They pretty much all suck. Hadozee is just stupid - I mean, pirate monkey? Are you SERIOUS? The Darfellan might be okay, but "orca-man" doesn't fit right if you ask me. And Aventi? Seriously. Sandstorm has some dumb ones, too - especially those sand-divers, the Asherati. I think that's their name... it sounds like a car. I find the idea of someone swimming through sand stupid. Way too "high-fantasy" for me. The Bhuka are... okay. Frostburn races are a little bit better, but not much - Neanderthals aren't great, but that's probably because I'm an anthropology major, and as such, I find it to be slightly racist in thinking of a different species of human (who had the exact same technologies as homo sapiens sapiens did at the time) as being primitive. I would have been much happier with the less scientific classification, "Cave Man", because using an actual term like "Neanderthal" and then ascribing unfair game stats to it reeks of irresponsibility, if you ask me. But that's a pet peeve of mine. Oh, I really liked the Snow Goblins from Frostburn. Awesome race.
**GOLIATHS**
We have one in our group, and he's a damage MACHINE! While i never really was fascinated by them, when the goliath's player was looking through the books for a "heavy hitter" and found goliaths, he went nuts. And it's not just the rules behind the class - he loves the competition (and he makes a big point of "keeping score" with the dwarven fighter/dragon shaman in the party). In fact, he even focused on improving his climb skill, even though he traditionally focuses on imtimidate and similar skills.
**FERAL GARGUN**
I've always wanted to play one of these, but haven't got around to it, yet. I just think they look really cool. One of these days, I'm going to put them into a campaign world with only one or two other non-human races, in the hopes that one of my players decides to take it upon themselves to give these guys a chance. One thing we both hate are the goliath naming conventions - we scrapped that random name generator and just used the (much better) dwarven name generator.
**CATFOLK**
We have a catfolk rogue in our group right now. At 2nd level, she has a Dex of 22. She's pretty damn awesome. Actually, I think the race itself is only so-so, but that +4 dex really helped the player out. The neat thing about it is, the player isn't much of a power-builder. When we were making characters, she said "I want to make a pirate chick. Maybe a rogue, or something." So, she rolls her stats, and decides to play a rogue. Then, she's leafing through the books, and she comes upon Catfolk. Did I mention she loves cats? She does. It took her all of three seconds to decide to be a catfolk, and she's loving the character.
**ENVIRONMENT RACES**
They pretty much all suck. Hadozee is just stupid - I mean, pirate monkey? Are you SERIOUS? The Darfellan might be okay, but "orca-man" doesn't fit right if you ask me. And Aventi? Seriously. Sandstorm has some dumb ones, too - especially those sand-divers, the Asherati. I think that's their name... it sounds like a car. I find the idea of someone swimming through sand stupid. Way too "high-fantasy" for me. The Bhuka are... okay. Frostburn races are a little bit better, but not much - Neanderthals aren't great, but that's probably because I'm an anthropology major, and as such, I find it to be slightly racist in thinking of a different species of human (who had the exact same technologies as homo sapiens sapiens did at the time) as being primitive. I would have been much happier with the less scientific classification, "Cave Man", because using an actual term like "Neanderthal" and then ascribing unfair game stats to it reeks of irresponsibility, if you ask me. But that's a pet peeve of mine. Oh, I really liked the Snow Goblins from Frostburn. Awesome race.
Greylock
First Post
Justin Bacon said:
Page 34, Table 2-1, Racial Ability Adjustments.
Finally bought Stormwrack just the other day. First of the environment series of books I've bought, and I have pretty much everything else except Races of Destiny. I got bored with the new player classes, and started trying out actually playing new Races. Currently playing a Raptoran and having a blast. Creating a stable of backup chars for a deadly campaign and have found much goodness with other new races.
The LA+1 of the Aquatic Elf blew my mind. They are not terribly different from standard Elves, Superior Low-Light Vision and the ability to breathe water. But unlike the amphibious Humans and Halflings, which have no LA+ and basically an at-will 3rd level Spell, the Aquatic Elf must be dunked in a pool at regular intervals or die.
So, the LA+1 made no sense. For the record, I feel there should be an LA+½ category, for races like this and Aasimars and such. The Human and Halfling Stormwrack races seem more suited to a higher LA.
I don't personally like or dislike the litorians or sibeccai particularly (I like litorians better), but it seems to me that cat people and dog people have connotations in our culture that snake people, lizard people, and hyena people do not. Anthropomorphic cats and dogs are a staple of early animation, while the others aren't.
Objectively, it's a double standard to be okay with hyenafolk but not catfolk, but subjectively it makes perfect sense.
Objectively, it's a double standard to be okay with hyenafolk but not catfolk, but subjectively it makes perfect sense.
