D&D 5E (2024) Opinions on the Topaz Dragon Reverse Wings?

[BB Shockwave]

This isn't a new design. I don't think any of them are -- these are all 5e designs that date from Fizban's. It's just new artwork with the same design. Pushing into the controversy to tackle the wings and try and make sense of them might be the best solution here for Palmer.

Here's the topaz dragon from Fizban's:
View attachment 414005

The description in Fizban's states: "their wings are shaped to propel them through both air and water." Which....I dunno, Palmer's wings seem sturdy enough to do that. The ones above seem more diaphanous and decorative, hahaha. Wings in nature aren't built for both mediums as far as I know (penguins don't fly, and most birds that dive fold their wings in when they plunge).

I like RJ Palmer's artwork better than this. The above ain't bad by any stretch, but RJ's feels so substantial and powerful. The dude above is more sleek and ethereal.

For comparison to other works, here's 2e's Topaz Dragon:
View attachment 414008

And 3e's design:
View attachment 414009

I think I like 5e's design the best out of the bunch. 3e's is OK, and fits with the other "made of gem" designs in 3e, but it looks a little...melted...and very chaotic (which is apt, I suppose!). 2e's looks pretty "dinosaur"-y. Intimidating, but it looks like it'd be a bit lumbering and awkward.

I'd say RJ Palmer's is the best illo of a topaz dragon yet! I'm sure he was working within the design constraints the team gave him, which includes the backwards wing design.

I imagine these wings "flap" like a hand grabs. The topaz dragon is grabbing fistfuls of air or water and hurling them back and beneath to push off.

.....yeah, still a strange deisgn.

It's weird, and I like that they got weird with it. Not super successful, I guess, but I appreciate the experimental attempt.

There is also a Topaz Dragon on the Council of Wyrms artwork in 2E! No backwards wings, but the head and the shape of the body being thick and bulky is close to the 5E style.

 

[Incenjucar]

I personally adore the flying orange t-rex.

 

[mamba]

Just wanted to be clear it wasn't this artist's choice. The design (backward wings) comes from FToD and RJ didn't do that art.

they decided to lean into it, not sure how much ‘leaning out’ they could have done, but going the opposite direction was their choice

 

[I'm A Banana]

Are we certain that the FToD design is supposed to have backwards wings? Cause it looks to me like they are normal wings that are, in that specific piece, twisted into a weird position.

The concept art for Fizban's is more clear with the backwards orientation.

they decided to lean into it, not sure how much ‘leaning out’ they could have done, but going the opposite direction was their choice

I think the slight ambiguity of the Fizban's official art is why Palmer mentioned "leaning into it." Palmer's art is undeniably back-winged, much like this concept art. Very much, "If this is the design guidance I'm getting, I'm going to go ham on it and not try to 'fix' things or occlude what's happening - these are backwards wings, and they will not be denied!"

Which I respect, honestly. Leaning into the weird and unique elements of a design is a pretty good artistic instinct, because the last thing I need is another 5 dragons who look kind of like cats or whatever.

I personally adore the flying orange t-rex.

If I could see the 15 dragons each designed in a more "dinosauroid"/avian vibe, I'd be delighted.

Gold dragons like sinuous sauropods who fly. Red dragons like fierce, predatory therapod with brillian red plumage. A copper dragon with a brilliant neck-shield and spikes like a ceratopsian. A sapphire dragon like an ankylosaur, with claws and wings, staring at you with the murderous intent of a barnyard chicken.

 

[Laurefindel]

I mean, despite my thoughts about backward wings, the artist is undeniably talented and it’s a beautifully executed piece!

If I was to use Topaz dragons in my games, they’d be the equivalent of double-jointed dragons who found a way to use their wings to do something (some kind of magic-y/psionic-y shield or focusing dish?) and discovered down their evolutionary chain that it works better with their wings reversed, and physiologically adapted to this position/use of their limbs*.

… but when they take flight, they fly like any dragon with their wings forward (which is where my already generous suspension of disbelief finally quits, I think).

* and since we’re dealing with magic-fueled fantasy, this « evolutionary chain » may be composed of exactly three generations of dragons for all we know, or three different ages of the same progenitor dragon, or whatever…

 

[Corinnguard]

Sounds like some Survivor threads are needed.

The 2014 Dragons vs the 2024 Dragons?

 

[Scribe]

The 2014 Dragons vs the 2024 Dragons?

Those threads are far too much effort for me, but I was thinking MM versions through the ages, best of each color/gem.

 

[Riley]

Which 1e dragons though? They weren’t so standardized back then.

Which was good

 

[Riley]

nm

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You keep mentioning 4E, but aside the Green Dragon who grew a Pinocchio horn, all the Chromatics and Metallics stayed the same in 4E as they were in 3E. The Red Dragons sometimes had a beige underbelly, and sometimes it was the same red as the back scales, it was inconsistent. Otherwise, even the miniatures made during this era were the same style as the 3E ones.

I find there are subtle differences in how 3e-style art vs 4e-style art presents them. 3e went very very heavily for a "dungeon punk" style married to a "Renaissance sketch" style for the baseline art--and, as a result, all subsequent art hewed extremely closely to that "more like a sketch than a near-realistic painting" look...even when they were trying for a near-realistic look.

4e did not do that. Its art looks like a painter trying to accurately capture the details of the scene as they appear. The White dragon is probably the only place where I think the 3e style does things better, and that's specifically because, as noted, I don't think WotC has ever given White dragons a truly iconic appearance yet. They're missing a je ne sais quoi that would truly make them stand out; frankly, if you took a White and colored it blue, I wouldn't be able to tell you which was which without looking them up.