D&D 5E Origin New Edition Panel

[pemerton]

I think it's a pretty good lore addition (or is it from an old supplement?). Instead of the Hells just being a place where devils live, it's actually their prison and they want to get out.

It's in 4e. I don't know if it started there.

 

[Redbadge]

I think your conclusion is right, but looking at 4e essentials as anything but a 4e is probably wrong. You can play a "normal" 4e character and a 4e essentials character in the same game and they are completely compatible. Just like different sets in Magic.

I actually do realize this. With Essentials (and some other editions), it was more a matter of marketing, because it had a good amount of backlash/incredulity as some D&D fans saw it as a cash grab that wasn't even an evolution of 4e (though I liked it fine and admire their efforts to bring lapsed fans back into the fold). Essentials relative failure was obviously the catalyst for 5th edition, where WotC said (conjecture, obviously), "This time, we are going to get it right."

When Magic Core Set 2015 comes out, Magic fans don't say, "What?! Another edition? So soon... Obviously another play for money that just adds unneeded bloat. I'll just stick with the cards I have. In the meantime, let me run to the forums/my local card shop to make sure everyone knows just how bad a decision this release is."

If WotC can generate the same sort of feelings towards the inevitable 5.5/6e that fans have towards Magic, they'll have succeeded, even if Player's Handbook, Revised, is released next summer.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I actually do realize this. With Essentials (and some other editions), it was more a matter of marketing, because it had a good amount of backlash/incredulity as some D&D fans saw it as a cash grab that wasn't even an evolution of 4e (though I liked it fine and admire their efforts to bring lapsed fans back into the fold). Essentials relative failure was obviously the catalyst for 5th edition, where WotC said (conjecture, obviously), "This time, we are going to get it right."

When Magic Core Set 2015 comes out, Magic fans don't say, "What?! Another edition? So soon... Obviously another play for money that just adds unneeded bloat. I'll just stick with the cards I have. In the meantime, let me run to the forums/my local card shop to make sure everyone knows just how bad a decision this release is."

If WotC can generate the same sort of feelings towards the inevitable 5.5/6e that fans have towards Magic, they'll have succeeded, even if Player's Handbook, Revised, is released next summer.

The thing about 3e and 4e is that after the first few splat books which were interesting, I just stopped caring what they did with player options. For me, they had produced so many options I had gone back to basic.

I actually only learnt about 4e essentials way after it was published when I wanted to start up a new campaign. I really liked the new options and feel it is 4e done right.

If WotC does what they have said, which is to produce much less splat books, I think I will find what they produce much more interesting. At the same time, the same isn't true about adventure support. Better adventure support is really something I hope they do.

 

[Rygar]

But they will. The 4e core sold well. The ultimate "problem" for its longevity (not for me, I love 4e) was that it was too different, too much of a departure. As long as "6th edition" is still compatible with 5th, they can perpetuate sales and freshen up the brand without alienating fans who feel like they have to keep up without being obsoleted. "6th edition" doesn't have to even sell exceptionally well; just as well as your average splat (enough to make money and increasingly grow the fan base). And it doesn't have to be every one or two years; four or five is probably better for D&D. The problem is that WotC sells 3.5 and 4e Essentials as one time corrections in the middle of an editions life cycle rather than natural evolutions overtime. Going forward, I'd like to see all future "editions" to be fully compatible with prior iterations. An ever growing catalogue of rules modules will supplement the evolving base game. If WotC makes the revised rules available for free as they come out, we should all be able to enjoy the game in harmony, and unlike editions prior to 5th we will all still be playing the same base game.

Arguably, this should have been the model from the very beginning. Instead, WotC introduced (somewhat successfully) Magic 3.0!... Magic 3.5!... (and somewhat less successfully) Magic 4.0!.... Magic 4.5 Essentials!....

Magic: the Gathering would likely not have existed this long if it had been presented to players like this, where each new set was so different from prior ones that even the card backs were different, so they couldn't be played in the same decks.

Actually, that was the original plan. I don't remember what caused them to change, but the original plan was the D&D model.

As far as Mtg being successful, I'd argue it has alot more to do with huge money prizes, smaller local prizes that can easily be converted to money, and netdecking which let people who lack skill win prizes. Because for all intents and purposes, Mtg does use the D&D model. Most people play Standard only, and most events are Standard only, which means every 12 months your core cards become useless and every 24 months your expansion cards become useless.

 

[thalmin]

Better adventure support is really something I hope they do.

+1
Adventure support is where WotC has in the past been woefully lacking, and where Paizo has excelled. I believe 5E is a better game than Pathfinder (I do play both, counting the playtest) but now Wizards has to compete with Paizo support.

 

[doctorhook]

+1
Adventure support is where WotC has in the past been woefully lacking, and where Paizo has excelled. I believe 5E is a better game than Pathfinder (I do play both, counting the playtest) but now Wizards has to compete with Paizo support.

This is probably the first time the publisher of D&D has any serious competition for tabletop market share. Hopefully this motivates WotC to be less complacent about product quality than they have been.

 

[Bolongo]

"PH, MM, and DMG are more like advanced versions of the game."

I see what you did there...
​

 

[mechascorpio]

Hmmm. Does this infer constant rules updates? I hope not, that doesn't work well with physical books.

I was the one who asked about "Basic D&D as a living document", and there was really nothing about Mike's answer that indicated that the rules would be in a constant state of flux, or that we'd find ourselves tracking things like "D&D 5.01, 5.54..." and so on. Their approach (as I perceived it in his answer) was that they simply wanted to keep the dialogue going between the team and the audience in a fashion similar to the playtest period, and that would help guide future development and priorities. They hope errata will be small and infrequent, and they talked about the steps they'd taken to help ensure that. I got the impression that future changes will be incorporated into Basic D&D and future printings of books, but should a bigger issue arise, we would help determine how to address it.

I think he cited a theoretical example of a subclass that, after a year of real world play, doesn't live up to expectations, they are a) going to know that based on the ongoing conversation, and b) let the audience help determine how best to fix it, through surveys, playtest, and so on.

He certainly didn't say this, but I really got the impression that they were working towards a goal of making the basic core of this edition last for a very long time (forever?), light updates through subsequent and infrequent reprints, and focusing more on developing new enhancements, styles and platforms for the game over the long run.

 

[Khaalis]

Of course. There's always PHB2, MM2, adventures, etc.

Aye. this is where I see WotC's comments leading too. PHB2 will be full of new requested comment based in feedback such as new skills, new backgrounds, new subclasses, etc. DMG2 will be full of new alternate rules subsystems based on feedback. I do not see them doing 6E or 5.1E reprints.

I also have to say that I really hope they focus on game support. Personally I'd like to see new setting books. As noted already, this is an area where Paizo has really dominated the market. They rate with which they churn out decent material is astonishing really, and something I hope WotC can at least come close to matching.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

When Magic Core Set 2015 comes out, Magic fans don't say, "What?! Another edition? So soon... Obviously another play for money that just adds unneeded bloat. I'll just stick with the cards I have. In the meantime, let me run to the forums/my local card shop to make sure everyone knows just how bad a decision this release is."

You have obviously (and fortunately, IMO) not frequented the Magic boards.