[OT] 2002 World Cup, part 2

[Rashak Mani]

I woudl be wary of South Korea going much further... the crowd can only spur players on so much... at some moment experience and raw talent will kick these newcomers out. The fact that they have come so far sometimes stinks of FIFA manipulation and referee pressure to make the hosts happy. France couldnt even get out of the first phase now that they arent the hosts anymore.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Hey, for the record, I never said that Germany was a bad team or played poorly and I certainly didn't say that they did not deserve to get this far. I did, however, say that they will go down in history as the worst team to ever reach the final, and I stand by that. Not that they are bad, just the worst to ever make it that far. There IS a difference.

As for their play, well I think they play up to their potential which is clearly not very high. But the defense seems to be good and a little bit lucky in that they frustrate opposing offenses so they don't get a ton of chances. And then, between Kahn and some luck they have managed to keep opponents from scoring. On top of that, they have a couple of good sturmers who can score when they do manage to get a chance. This is a recipe for a lot of 1-0 and 1-1 games. Which will take you far. (I want to add that I think Völler deserves more credit than he is getting... he and his coaches have after all designed an ugly system that so far has worked.)

I also stand by my earlier comment: this German team will go down in history as the team that beat nobody to reach the finals: Paraguay, USA, South Korea. Not to say these teams did not play well during the tournament or against Germany. They just aren't teams you expect to see go that far.

And, Lord Melkor--if that is your real name--I am not saying the German team sucks. They just aren't world class. No offense. Just my opinion.

Edit: a little mistake

 

[Ruvion]

Originally posted by Rashak Mani
I woudl be wary of South Korea going much further... the crowd can only spur players on so much... at some moment experience and raw talent will kick these newcomers out.

It is percisely experience and raw talent that is drawing the matches closer and closer in terms of level of play. Though Corea is a young country (in terms of history of FIFA greats), Corea's level of playing have been advancing closer to the level of true World Cup greats IMHO. State of mental preparedness is as important as physical fitness, talent, and what not. Don't take my word; here's Pele's take on Corea as a team:

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/020621/2/15zj.html

The fact that they have come so far sometimes stinks of FIFA manipulation and referee pressure to make the hosts happy. France couldnt even get out of the first phase now that they arent the hosts anymore.

P.S. Naysayers are always blaming conspiracies and referees!

 

[Ruvion]

I sincerely hope that the Corean side win over Germany and Brazil win over Turkey, so that the Coreans can really prove themselves at the final...and maybe take home the Cup while they are about it.

 

[kamosa]

Congrats to Turkey

I was rooting for Senagal, but the Turkish side played much better. Senegal went through long stretches where they were not even able to get the ball into places where they could even try something dangerous.

Congrats to Korea.
Spain might have some legit complaints about the ref, but Korea played it's game and won.

Prediction for the final four.

Brazil easily beats Tukey 3-1

Korea beats Germany in golden goal 3-2

Brazil beats Korea in the finals 4-1

 

[Lichtenhart]

Ok, as the first italian to post in this thread, let me express a few thoughts.

*Gaucci (President of the Perugia F.C.) is a very very stupid man. Please don't listen to him and don't judge italians by his words.

*Italy is not a very united country. A thing that really unites italians is soccer. Soccer is in italian DNA, it's probably the first game taught to children when they learn to walk, even though is not the sport Italy scores best in. We have won only once in the last 50 years, and other sports come to my mind (fencing, ski, boat-racing, swimming) in which we are really better. Nonetheless, at least half of every italian sport newspaper is about soccer.

*When the italian team plays all works stop, and something like 40 millions people tries to find a television to watch the match, or at least to listen to it at the radio. That's two thirds of the nation, something that in the USA should be like 180 millions people watching the same thing at the Tv. Try to imagine the level of emotion involved.

*All this passion has several drawbacks, one is (I'm not an exception) that every italian thinks to be a better coach than the coach, and a better referee than the referee. Many italian think that a single referee's call on an offside or a penalty can decide the outcome of our championship (34 matches). Try to explain to these people that 5 goals ruled out in 4 matches aren't determining.

*It is nice and beatiful to watch in TV koreans celebrate and rejoice with them. It is not so nice and and beatiful when at the same time you can hear the forty millions people mentioned before fall in an astonished silence. You could hear the wind in the streets.

*Italian linesmen were rejected by FIFA because "not equal to the task". Ironic, isn't it?

*Not one italian that I know complained about the outcome of Italy-Korea because he's a whiner. Not one said that Italy couldn't have played better (on the contrary, many wanted coach Trapattoni's head). They complained because they felt they have been wronged. It's not a habit. There was nothing like this in 1998.

*I (and many other italians) don't think korean players are in any way responsible for this. I do think that now Korea team has to show they're really one of the four best soccer teams in the world. I don't think they deserve the reputation they they got so far thanks to the referees.

Go Korea! Go Germany! Go Brazil! Go Turkey!

May the better win.

 

[Lars Frehse]

Lichtenhart- I know how hard it must be for you and your countrymen right now. So, kudos to you for your fairness.

 

[frog]

I am not Italian, I am from the U.S. (both a beneficiary and a victim of debatable calls in this Cup). Most of the games in this Cup have had adequate refereeing and been more or less balanced.

I watched the Italy/ South Korea game. The referee's are human, the mistakes on calling the Offsides could be accounted for by that. Then I watched the Spain/ South Korea game. Phantom shirt pulls and the ball called out even though it didn't come within a foot of the touchline disallowed winning goals for Spain.

I am no longer sure that the "mistakes" can be accounted for by writing it off as "the referee's are only human". In my 25 years of the game (both playing and watching) I have never seen such a travesty of officiating. I do not blame the South Korean team for they have played well and played their hearts out. I DO blame FIFA and the referees that they have appointed.

This is a sad day for Football.

====================

Having said all that:

Germany, you played well and we gave you the best that we had on the field. You beats us fair (no...the hand ball should NOT have been called as the ball played the hand...no matter what anyone may say he got THAT call right).

Mexico, we have owned you on the field for the last 2 years...we finally got to prove it to the world in the Cup .

Italy and Spain...you were robbed.

England, David Seaman deserves better than your hatred...he got you where you were, and you have a class team, be class fans now and support him...don't hate him.

Brazil, when you stop "diving" you are a beauty to watch.

Turkey, ugly ball but all heart. You are the sluggers of the match compared to the "boxers" of Brazil.

Senegal, you are the true "Cinderella story" as you got where you did without any debate.

South Korea, I am sorry that your legendary run will be forever tainted by the poor refereeing. You will never receive your proper due because of it.

 

[Rashak Mani]

>>>When the italian team plays all works stop, and something like 40 millions people tries to find a television to watch the match<<<

heheh.... in Brazil the country literaly stops during World Cup... even in the 3 AM games about 80% of the country is watching the games. Thats 120-130 million brazilians... our DNA is soccer !

 

[Lars Frehse]

I second the "Brazilian DNA is soccer" comment. Just looking at the Brazilian players in Germany who weren't picked for the national team... Ze Roberto, Elber, etc... Each of them would be celebrated heroes in our national team...