[OT] Yet another martial arts help thread.....so, please help!!

zdanboy said:

Also, the important thing is I am training martial arts mainly for self-defence......

There's nothing wrong with good old fashioned boxing. Training for boxing will increase your staminia, your strength, your reflexes, and your ability to take a hit. I don't know why more people don't consider boxing when they consider a fighting style for self-defense.

Marc
 

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I wouldn't consider boxing as Self -Defense for a number of reasons.

#1 Boxing will not teach you what to do if a guy tackles you.
#2 Boxing will not teach you what to do against the muggers favorite weapons ..namely guns and knives.
#3 boxing is ineffective when a mugger has two or more friends helping him out and this happend more times than not
#4 boxing will not teach you what it is like to take a full force kick and that can be much more devastating than a puch.
#5 boxing does not really teach you how to punch without your gloves on. How many times have you heard of a boxer who broke his hand geting in a fight outside the ring? That has happened enough that they named a fracture after it called a boxers fracture. A boxers fracture happens when a knuckle breaks the bone behind it and the knuckle stays intact. Usually it is the pinky knuckle.
On the good side however....Boxing will get you in shape
Boxing will teach you basic sparring
Boxing will teach you how to close the gap
Boxing will allow you to take a whole bunch of punches.
Boxing is a good fighting art for a sport and if your good enough even as an amateur you can make good money fighting in the squared circle.

I guess that is why most people do not consider it a good way to work on self defense.
Decado good point....Takyris I did not feel it was an attack at all but felt it needed an answer is all, no big deal. I am enjoying these posts for a number of reasons....
Have fun,
Darius
 

Darius101 said:

#3 boxing is ineffective when a mugger has two or more friends helping him out and this happend more times than not
#4 boxing will not teach you what it is like to take a full force kick and that can be much more devastating than a puch.


Boxing isn't ineffective when facing multiple attackers. I was able to avoid being surrounded by four opponents using techiques learned from boxing. Also, from what I admit is my limited experience, you're not likely to see a whole lot of kicking during a fight.


#5 boxing does not really teach you how to punch without your gloves on. How many times have you heard of a boxer who broke his hand geting in a fight outside the ring? That has happened enough that they named a fracture after it called a boxers fracture. A boxers fracture happens when a knuckle breaks the bone behind it and the knuckle stays intact. Usually it is the pinky knuckle.


Boxing gloves do very little to protect hands against fractures. What they do is protect your knuckles from being cut or scraped and protect the other boxer from being cut or scraped by your fist. Hand injuries aren't uncommon for boxers, especially during bag training.


I guess that is why most people do not consider it a good way to work on self defense.

Boxing classes are probably more common then many exotic martial arts. I certianly don't think it is perfect but I do think more people should consider it. I think you're more likely to learn how to take a hit at your average boxing gym then you are at your average martial arts studio.

Marc
 

Boxing classes are probably more common then many exotic martial arts. I certianly don't think it is perfect but I do think more people should consider it. I think you're more likely to learn how to take a hit at your average boxing gym then you are at your average martial arts studio.
Unfortunatly not in my area. In my area many boxing gyms are closing. Boxing gyms are not as common as they once were. It is not politcally correct to have one of these gyms anymore.
I have trained in a boxing gym. The boxers I fought against did not realize how hard I could hit even with pads on. They upped the ante and allowed me to spar with more experienced fighters and they hit me harder than the first two fighters they put me with. It was alot of fun..but again nothing i saw in that boxing gym led me to believe they were any good at self-defense. They were however good at intimidation. Psyching you out so to speak.
You are correct that in most street fights there are few kicks if any thrown.
In the street fights I have been in none were thrown. I was so surprised someone would attack me that I finished them rather quickly and with more force than I expected.
Fight #1 Graphic details....
A guy tried to stab me with a knife. I used body movement and threw a reverse punch to his right cheek shattering bone. it was a rather sikening feeling when that happend. when I realized what i had done and looked down the individual was completley unconcious and bleeding from his mouth and the back of his head where he hit the pavement. I got scarred and got in my car as a security guard called an ambulance. He witnessed the event and told me to go he would take care of it. what was amazing to me was the fact that I couldn't stop shaking for a period of time after that and could barely drive. Got home and called my sensei he said that is a normal reaction to an event like that.

Fight#2
Fall evening....walking back to car and three young men asked me where I was going. I said to my car to go home....they then came forward and tried to surround me...I back up and waited for the first one to punch me. The 'leader' threw a punch and I used Taisabaki (body escape) learned in class to move out of the way. There were rocks and I began to slip so I bent my knees keeping my balence...the guys arm was right in front of my face so I threw a straight punch to his Elbow.....Damn ...talk about an even worse feeling than the guys cheek breaking...i watched in horror and anger as the force of my strike followed right thru his arm to hit him square in the nose. His nose exploded and he shouted loudly falling to the ground....I immediatly turned to the other two who were now behind me and I must have looked like a madman because they threw up their hands and more or less surrendered. I told them to get their friend to a hospital an never to attack anyone again. The poor guy that attacked me had a piece of his elbow sticking through his skin and was bleeding all over the place. You never know what is going to happen. What i found odd in this situation is that I didn't shake until I was in my car and I tried to turn on the radio...dam adrenalin.

I do not feel I need to go on.....but I will say this.
If you get in a fight it is serious business do not take it lightly. Remember the individual does not know you and you probably do not know him. It is best if you do not fight and you should avoid it if possible. If a guy has a gun and you have a loved one with you give them your wallet...it isn't worth it to try to get the gun. Anyone telling you different has never been in that situation. if however, you are alone and feel the guy is going to kill you anyway then by all means protect yourself. When you train for situations like this ...things seem to move in slow motion at least in my experience. I think that is a benefit of adrenalin and training. In both of those above situations it was my training that saved me from a bad situation. The first one I was a second green belt or 5 kyu in Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu. In the second one I was a 1st dan with 4yrs of training under my belt. I had been training with the Second Dan students getting ready for them to test for third and me for Second. When you train at this level you train to internalize your basic foundations.
I reacted to a stimulus without thinking and when i thought about what was happening it was over. A fight is a type of trauma and can be a life chageing event.
Live a life of peace but be ready to defend your peace if necessary. Remember the consequences of what you are doing. I for one know very well what I am capable of and will avoid a fight whenever possible....Life is too fragile.
To defend is to live ...to live is to enjoy.
To fight without prupose is something that will leave you hollow and unfufilled in life.
A day without training is a day without life.....
Train to live, train to grow, but most of all train to learn.
Live, learn and grow,
Darius
 
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Darius I too am in bujinkan.....I will be training with ed martin over valentine weekend......which training hall are you associated with?
 

Since my teacher went back to Japan I would rather not say....as I no longer train with Bujinkan at this time. Our Training hall was closed up and mats and store sold to other training halls throughout the area. (been 5yrs at least)
There is another Bujinkan that has started up here but the woman that runs it has 'interesting' technique. It is not for me to train there. My path is elsewhere now...
I guess you could call me a freelancer now.

I remember Ed you will enjoy your training. Tell him the 'old man' says Hi. I am not the old man...he should understand. How is Dr. Morris doing? How is Robin Martin doing is he still a cop?

:D
Darius

**Edit http://www.hoshin.com/ There is alot of good information here from books to essays on finding a good teacher.
 
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Folks, I can honestly say this is one of the most enjoyable and civil threads involving martial arts that I've taken part in in a very long time. Not having slept properly in several days, and I have to say I've been posting past my bed time, I"ll keep this short for tonight.

Boxing against multiple opponents have a few really good things going for it. Fast striking combinations, range control and ring work all apply very well against multiples. Fast striking combinations keep you from concentrating too long on a single opponent and forgetting about the rest. Range control helps keep you out of reach and out of the tangle that multiples often create. The ring control, as in 'working the ring' is possible the most valuable asset you can take from boxing in this case. If you can control the angles that opponents are coming from, you cut down the danger, and good boxers can do this well.

Which reminds me to track down a local boxer, the last good one left in my town and speak with him about getting hit repeatedly all over the head and shoulders;) .

More later then everyone?

Kail
 

Takyris,

I agree with you. Sparring will never be able to fully represent a street fight and there will always be techniques that you cannot do on a training partner at full power. I have found however that some of the bodys most powerful striking tools, head butts knees and elbows, can be done at full power very safely if you have the proper gear. I guess it is a matter of getting your training as close to real life, with safety of course, as you possibly can. This is not an instant process but something that takes time to develop.

I find myself on the other side of the fence from other posters here regarding boxing as a defence art and its usefulness in a mass attack. Boxing is a very good art if one wants to learn how to strike with their hands. It is also probably one of the better arts I can think of to use against multiple opponents. The key to fighting more then one person is movement and moving in such a way that only 1 of your opponents can reach you. Boxing teaches really good footwork and works very well in mass attacks. In a mass attack situation you are not going to stand toe to toe with each guy and duke it out. Not if you want to survive the encounter. If at all possible run like hell and get out of there. If this is not possible you need to be up on your toes using fast strikes, like a jab, and moving around until you can escape. I think boxing is discounted because it is a sport but if there is a gym nearby one should spend some time training there. You will definately learn form the experience. Boxing does have its limitations, like all martial art styles. One poster mentioned that it is not good against an attacker who tries to bring you to the ground. I agree and this falls back to my other post where I said it was important to be able to fight from all the ranges.

I agree that this is one of the most civil martial arts threads I have ever read. Lots of good info and ideas being exchanged here.

Decado
 

I am looking for a few articles on boxing that I have around the house....hopefully the wife didn't toss em.
I remember reading about this in at least two of the old issues of Ninja Magazine I had and there was also one in an Aikido mag i had someplace.
If not I see if they may be available online someplace. I know this has been discussed and discussed online and that was one of the reasons I tried it out.

It is far more constructive to be civil than to argue about things. I really am enjoying the thoughts and ideas here as well. It is allowing me to remember things I haven't thought about too much lately. it also reminds me that I need to make a few calls and jump back into the swing of more formal training again.
Later,
Darius

**Edit**
http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/fb/fbboxma.html
Boxing thread and interesting thoughts on boxing and martial arts in general.



http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/martialarts.html
This is interesting as well. More on a self-defense aspect than just talking about one in particular.
Sorry if this is making you lose any sleep guys...Also Dr. Morris's site I put on here yesterday is good but e-mailing him with questions is even better. He has always answered questions well. He does not sugar coat anything either which is something that is refreshing.

http://www.winjutsu.com/bbtaikaiarticle_hoban.htm
Jack always has something interesting to say.
This last url is for LG. Jack Hoban is also a friend with a long history.
I like the warrior code:
Wherever I go,
everyone is a little bit safer because I am there.

Wherever I am,
anyone in need has a friend.

Whenever I return home,
everyone is happy I am there.
---from the Article by Jack Hoban in Blackbelt Magazine----
Enjoy,
Darius
 
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On a related note to one of the conversations before boxing (which I don't really know enough about to add onto, beyond the kickboxing section of my sparring test), I had a question for folks who've trained for awhile.

Does your school do any internal training? If so, how has it worked for you?

To answer it for myself, my school generally doesn't do much of it. My teacher has said a few times that it will come when it comes, and that it doesn't come until you're ready for it. I can sense the energy coming from him, although it's not anime-esque flashing light as much as the clear knowledge that his body is completely under his control and capable of doing whatever he needs it to do. I've felt the energy myself a few times.

I read "Path Notes of an American Ninja Master", Glenn Morris' book, and liked it. It tied into a lot of the meditation I'd done on my own since, heck, the sixth grade. I've always had what my wife describes as "warm hands". Not just that they're physically warm, but that I give better backrubs and massages than someone with little or no practical experience should (I also claim that pressure point knowledge helps a fair amount in giving a backrub :) ). I'm taking a Reiki class next month and am looking forward to learning more about it.

I'm at the stage now at my school where my teacher has asked me to go out and find something to bring back the school to make it better. My long-term goal would be to bring the internal arts to the school and make it something that gets cultivated earlier, if that's possible.

(Note: The above paragraph might make it look like my teacher is just sitting around letting me improve his school, and that's SO VERY not the case. He busts his butt to find everything from new drills to new interpretations of old movements to new workout strategies. He does a ton of work -- and I'm really excited at the idea that I'm at a level where I can help him bring in new ideas.)

-Tacky
 

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