Out of Healing Surges - what now?

[Kraydak]

You’re assuming that there IS a problem with the adventure design and that the lack of surges was not the result of a) poor player/group resource management or b) bad luck.
...

As noted elsewhere, the adventure is apparently littered with healing potions. In 3E, healing potions generally were weak tactically (massive action/AoO cost to use) but increased your strategic endurance. In 4e their use is reversed: they are useless in increasing your strategic (multi-fight) endurance but are excellent at increasing your tactical hit-point pool.

This means that the potions, that were deliberately put into the adventure to make up for the lack of rest simply can no longer do their job.

 

[madjackmcmad]

This is a really interesting thread to read!

I wasn't really paying attention to the internet or any forums when 3E broke into the world all those years ago, but with 4E it is fun to see what people say.

I am not accusing anyone of cowardice, but I do chuckle when I see a thread like "my [PC / Party] is in a bad situation, this is a flaw in 4E"

Running out of healing surges is tough luck. Bad luck, bad dice rolls, maybe bad choices too. Sometimes the monsters get lucky! This has happened in every edition of D&D ever.

I think the player in this situation would feel pretty good if he made it back to the surface with his head on his shoulders and innards still well inside. It will be a tough challenge but what a story, right?

 

[billd91]

On the other hand, it does underline what in fact may be a weakness in the 4e design: healing resources are so internalized that they aren't as easily transferable to the hard-luck case... at least in a party that lacks a paladin.
4e afficionados may wax on about 4e's teamwork encouragement due to power development and encounter design, but other editions had their own places to shine with teamwork as well. And the sharing of external healing resources is one of those places whether the resource be potions, wands of cure wounds, staves of healing, or pots of Keoghtom's ointment. My prediction is that there will be a number of items appearing in games/modules/supplements that allow healing even when the character is out of healing surges.

Speak of Keoghtom's ointment...
Though a lot more expensive than a healing potion, toss in a few pots of that somewhere. You can use it to regain a healing surge. It fits in with the healing potion motif and is a quickly consumable resource that will have little effect on long term campaign balance.

 

[Lurker37]

Speak of Keoghtom's ointment...
Though a lot more expensive than a healing potion, toss in a few pots of that somewhere. You can use it to regain a healing surge. It fits in with the healing potion motif and is a quickly consumable resource that will have little effect on long term campaign balance.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

May I further suggest, OP, that you remove several healing pots for each one of these you put in, not for any monetary balance but because the ointments fulfill the original purpose of allowing the party to continue without rest, while the potions actually accelerate the rate at which you use up surges?

Oh, and I also recommend that you be up front with the players about what you are doing, and why.

 

[sinecure]

I think the player in this situation would feel pretty good if he made it back to the surface with his head on his shoulders and innards still well inside. It will be a tough challenge but what a story, right?

Totally agree. Inform the player that his current challenge is staying alive in his current condition.

Or let the party work out what to do next. In character, of course.

Also, if you do put magic items in the area for healing, then remember to take equivalent amounts of other magic items out. This shouldn't be an excuse for extra treasure.

 

[Griogre]

Obviously, part of the problem is the module expected the PC's to use "free" healing in 3.x terms. You might just replace some potions with the oldest healing trick in D&D - the magic healing fountain. You can give it the 4th ed feel by having it give back a healing surge instead of hps.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If it's essentially a mistake on behalf of the DM, or a string of bad luck, my solution would be to find a way to introduce:
- A way for the party to rest safely. (Maybe using an "extradimensional space & time" thingy)
- A way to heal without using healing surges.

A Healing Fountain isn't a bad idea for the latter. It needs limitations, off course. Inherently, it's non-moveable, that's a good restriction. Further, it should allow only limited healing (maybe 4/day, or 4 times per character per day. Or it can heal only 12 times as a whole, and then the magic or water is expended.).
I you really need to, it could have a drawback (maybe it contracts a long-term disease.)

If you want to make it interesting, the Fountain should be guarded and the PCs have first to find a way to secure if for their use.

 

[FunkBGR]

I think it's definitely something with conversions to be aware of, that Healing in a 4e game may seem easier, but is actually a *limited* resource, given how potions are done in 4e. I don't think this is a 'flaw'.

The guy is a melee ranger.

The module is Paizo's "Hangman's Noose", by Nicolas Logue. In it, the jury that sentenced a man to death is brought back to the courtroom where the verdict was passed, 10 years later. As midnight approaches, the PC's must solve a murder-mystery or become the Hangman's next victims.

Please - no spoilers about the module.

It's well-written, but has some awkward logistic issues. The time frame of the module is 6 hours (so no resting), puts the PC's in a supernatural lockbox that they can't easily leave (haunted courthouse) and it has enough content to take the PC's to 3rd level (in 3.0/3.5). It solves the HP issue by loading up potions everywhere. It doesn't solve the 'wizard with one spell issue' however.

It's a horror module, and I picked it as a test to see how well horror translates the editions. It fits easily into what I'm running. I already modified some things about it before going into it (Tervin's suggestion about the Paladin was something I already thought of, for example. Still a great suggestion though!).

I thought healing might be an issue going into it, due to the difference in how potions work, the inability to rest, etc. I think this specific problem with a player running out of surges isn't necessarily a problem on my end (The DM) but more on party's end of things. The Cleric in the party could have been using his Healing Word between encounters to save some of those surges, for example, had he known the player in question was running low.

I think "Suck it up" is a viable solution and answer - but was just wondering if some people had other ideas.

 

[Filcher]

If this were AD&D: "I'm down to one hit point and I'm out of spells. Let's stop this combat with the dragon and sleep for the night before picking up tomorrow!"

Too bad. PCs die in 4E too.

Or, if you're really feeling sweet, have him call upon a dark power and sell his soul to a fiend in exchange for a "refresh." Then you have him on the hook for later adventures.

 

[kaomera]

As noted elsewhere, the adventure is apparently littered with healing potions. In 3E, healing potions generally were weak tactically (massive action/AoO cost to use) but increased your strategic endurance. In 4e their use is reversed: they are useless in increasing your strategic (multi-fight) endurance but are excellent at increasing your tactical hit-point pool.

This means that the potions, that were deliberately put into the adventure to make up for the lack of rest simply can no longer do their job.

Actually if they where acquired early enough some Potions of Healing could very well extend the party's strategic endurance, as could any ability that spends a surge but restores extra hit points. A 1st-level Fighter with an 18 Con starts with 33 hit points; that's 8 per surge or 18 with a potion. That should pretty close to halve the number of surges you need to restore lost hit points...