Out of Healing Surges - what now?
- Thread starter FunkBGR
- Start date
Just a minor point of correction here, but he would only heal 10 with a potion. The text specifically says that instead of healing what you normally would with a surge, you heal a flat 10. So for Fighters it's not really useful, except that it's a minor action instead of a standard action (like Second Wind)kaomera said:
EDIT: Ninja'd
Minor action to use one, and you can use as many in an encounter as you have potions. Clerics and Warlords can usually give you one or two healing surge uses per encounter, plus Second Wind. Using a potion is a good way to regain more HP mid-fight. Plus it can be administered by a Standard Action to a fallen teammate.kaomera said:
No, it's not fantastic, but it is useful for extending the fight for a bit.
Anax
First Post
For the kind of adventure you describe, it would almost certainly be appropriate to "break the rules" with regard to healing surges. I have no idea how the adventure is laid out, but I imagine it might be set up in scenes that relate to events in the earlier trial. If that's the case, then the re-enactment is occurring in a sort of accelerated time, and I'd feel very comfortable providing both action points *and* healing surges at certain milestones during the events. (i.e. not the full benefits of taking an extended rest, but reduced benefits for making progress in the timeframe of the original trial.) If the original trial was only a day long, perhaps you could introduce a "recess" in the court that occurs after every few encounter-equivalents--this would be the milestones, and is another "you have longer to catch your breath, but still not long enough" kind of mark.
In fact, the above sort of measure seems to me that it very much replicates what it sounds like the original did with potions--providing feedback to the characters as they progress that allows them to keep progressing.
The final option, of course, is to just make the players husband their resources very very carefully. If you go this route, I think it is appropriate to give the players meta-game knowledge that they are going to be heavily constrained, and that they're going to have to be as efficient as possible. It's probably appropriate to provide that information regardless, unless it's important to the tone of the game that they discover it on their own. But in that case, recovering healing surges during the adventure is practically mandatory, so that the players have time to realize what kind of situation they're in before they're completely drained of resources.
That's a very neat sounding setup, really. I'll have to look it up. (And, because it's so neat and unique, I am thoroughly convinced that it's the kind of place where bending the rules on surges is absolutely appropriate, especially when nobody has much experience with the new system yet.)
In fact, the above sort of measure seems to me that it very much replicates what it sounds like the original did with potions--providing feedback to the characters as they progress that allows them to keep progressing.
The final option, of course, is to just make the players husband their resources very very carefully. If you go this route, I think it is appropriate to give the players meta-game knowledge that they are going to be heavily constrained, and that they're going to have to be as efficient as possible. It's probably appropriate to provide that information regardless, unless it's important to the tone of the game that they discover it on their own. But in that case, recovering healing surges during the adventure is practically mandatory, so that the players have time to realize what kind of situation they're in before they're completely drained of resources.
That's a very neat sounding setup, really. I'll have to look it up. (And, because it's so neat and unique, I am thoroughly convinced that it's the kind of place where bending the rules on surges is absolutely appropriate, especially when nobody has much experience with the new system yet.)
vagabundo
Adventurer
Really he needs to suck it up; he's suppose to be a hero!!
He can either:
- Shoulder his backpack and lead the way in spite of his exhaustion and possibly die,
or,
- Quietly slink back down the dungeon corridor and run home to Mommy.*
*The PC not the player...
PS: Sometimes players can be so wussy about character death...
He can either:
- Shoulder his backpack and lead the way in spite of his exhaustion and possibly die,
or,
- Quietly slink back down the dungeon corridor and run home to Mommy.*
*The PC not the player...
PS: Sometimes players can be so wussy about character death...
If you understand the concept of the adventure, you will see why the "suck it up" comments aren't really that valid in this case. I will make sure not to give any spoilers, but consider:
1. PCs get tricked into a situation that they can't leave until they have resolved it. They are not there by player choice but by DM decision. (At least the way this is written.)
2. The situation and the time limit make it impossible to have an extended rest during the adventure.
3. Because of the extra strain put on the party by point 1 and 2 there are lots of extra healing potions to be found. This worked out great in 3.X, when potions were useful outside of combat as extra healing spells - with the 4.0 healing surge system they don't help much at all in this adventure.
4. As 4.0 is new converting old adventures is not something people can be expected to be great at yet. On the other hand we want the players to like the new rule set (at least I do). If there is a risk that something turns too hard for a PC because of conversion problems, it feels extra important not to kill off the character.
So, variation of potions that give surges back instead of healing or having the NPC paladin be extra helpful seem like good tips. Or (in theme with the feel of the story) give surges back as awards when the PCs have reached certain points in the story. If I was the DM I would not feel bad about admitting part fo the problem to the players and give them such a reward retroactively. Right now 4.0 is kind of a playtest for many of us, after all.
1. PCs get tricked into a situation that they can't leave until they have resolved it. They are not there by player choice but by DM decision. (At least the way this is written.)
2. The situation and the time limit make it impossible to have an extended rest during the adventure.
3. Because of the extra strain put on the party by point 1 and 2 there are lots of extra healing potions to be found. This worked out great in 3.X, when potions were useful outside of combat as extra healing spells - with the 4.0 healing surge system they don't help much at all in this adventure.
4. As 4.0 is new converting old adventures is not something people can be expected to be great at yet. On the other hand we want the players to like the new rule set (at least I do). If there is a risk that something turns too hard for a PC because of conversion problems, it feels extra important not to kill off the character.
So, variation of potions that give surges back instead of healing or having the NPC paladin be extra helpful seem like good tips. Or (in theme with the feel of the story) give surges back as awards when the PCs have reached certain points in the story. If I was the DM I would not feel bad about admitting part fo the problem to the players and give them such a reward retroactively. Right now 4.0 is kind of a playtest for many of us, after all.
kaomera
Explorer
Still less useful overall; I was thinking that potions would allow the PCs to minimize their surge usage between encounters. Healing Word can still do that, adding an average of 7.5 hp, assuming an 18 Wis. But you will need to take an extra 5-minute rest after each use (if you want to use it multiple times and/or have it available in the next encounter). I don't think that's a bad thing, as it allows both for more-efficient recuperation and also for situations where you just don't have the time. But it's definitely something to consider strongly in 4E adventure design.baberg said:
Not knowing the specific adventure, nor how far the PC's are in it, I think I would simply take the number of potions, divide them by the number in the party and then have that many potions be "special" healing potions which grant a healing surge, but no healing itself.
Also, you stated that at first the group was not doing healing surges from negatives correctly? Give everyone 1 healing surge back (or if it was well tracked, all healing surges used to get to positive) per encounter.
It does sound however that the player is playing a Striker like a Defender, any good boxing trainer will tell you, jab and move, jab and move...
Also, you stated that at first the group was not doing healing surges from negatives correctly? Give everyone 1 healing surge back (or if it was well tracked, all healing surges used to get to positive) per encounter.
It does sound however that the player is playing a Striker like a Defender, any good boxing trainer will tell you, jab and move, jab and move...
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