Overpowered characters - how to deal with them?

[Elder-Basilisk]

Oh, one last thing: while you mentioned the character's AC and attacks a few times, it seems like it's his saves, evasion, and spell resistance that really get to you.

First things first. Those have nothing to do with Vow of Poverty. The only thing he gets out of VoP on that score is a +2 resistance bonus to saves. IME, a typical 13th level character would have at least a +3 or +4 resistance item. That means that his saves are actually lower with VoP than they would be otherwise. And his spell resistance has nothing to do with VoP. So, messing with VoP won't fix either of those problems (if indeed they are problems).

Second, there are ways to deal with some of those issues. Spell Penetration is a very good feat for wizards or clerics to start with (especially drow wizards and clerics who generally have to fight other drow who have pretty good SR too). Greater Spell penetration carries its own weight too. It's perfectly reasonable for a lot of NPCs the party faces to have these feats. And with them, they will punch through his SR more often than not. In addition, there are quite a number of no SR or no save spells. The orb spells from Complete Arcane are good examples, as is vitriolic sphere. (vitriolic sphere is particularly good against monks because it has no SR and doesn't allow a half-damage save meaning that evasion doesn't help against it--you cast it and the monk takes damage. Period). Recitation and enervation are also good examples. The first only allows spell resistance which means it will effect the monk more often than not and the second doesn't have a save so as long as you can hit the monk's touch AC, you just have to beat his SR to damage him).

Third, simple large beatstick monsters are pretty effective against monks too. A huge or elder earth elemental will pound the monk, as will class leveled giants (a fighter/wizard/spellsword stone giant would pound the snot out of your monk but might seem like a grudge monster). Mountain trolls (Monster Manual III) would probably be very effective against him as well. The problem is that they'd also be even more effective against the lower-level people in the party though....

 

[Baramay]

I agree, that the biggest problem you have is the level variance. In 3.x level means so much more than in previous editions. This actually would be a benefit to your halfling fighter with a low strength if he had the same levels. I would recommend semi-retiring the characters under 10th level and having them bring in new characters. I have played as both the higher level character and the lower level one. The lower level character try to help where they can and just try to stay alive. We have not had this at higher levels, I have been 6th to 9th and 6th to 3rd, never more than three levels. At the lower levels we just understand that eventually it will even out. Sometimes characters like the fact that others are taking on the worst of the enemies and they are collecting experience as roleplayers, but never over an extended period of time.

 

[Staffan]

I would never allow this in my campaign unless I tweaked it considerably. It's just ridiculously powerful.

Note that if you replace the 64k "bracers of armor +8" and the 15k DR 5/magic armor with a single chain shirt +4 of invulnerability, you drop the value by about 30k, down to 154k. That's really not much more than the standard 110k, especially considering the number of items most characters would often eschew in favor of more useful things (e.g. necklace of adaption).

 

[Digital M@]

There is an easy way to step powergamers, it is called 25 point buy character creation. It does not stop it, but can curb it substantially. Allow high stats, magic and PrCs and you are asking for trouble with D&D 3.x. That and limit your book choices to the core books.


Me, I just kill power gamers. I don't have time to change/modify every encounter to deal with someone who is just there to crunch numbers for combat. I play for the story and interaction with friends. A few critical hits behind the old DM screen and all problems are solved.

 

[Banshee16]

Well, I sent out a call for everyone to forward me their equipment lists, and some of them are starting to come back with results. The druid clocked in with a total of about 81,000 gp of items....a 14th lvl character such as him is supposed to have 150,000 I believe. So he's already "under-powered" for his level.

The ranger/cleric/windwalker has about 38,000 gp, when an 11th lvl character should have about 66,000 gp.

The wizard is fairly close, but still under, with 63,000 gp of items, when (aside from penalty from dying) he should have been lvl 12, with 88,000 gp of items. However, his cohort who just recently joined is way overpowered, with 135,000 gp for an 11th lvl NPC, who should only have about 21,000 gp. Ordinarily, this player is pretty accurate, and I haven't had problems with him before. This must be due to some form of misunderstanding.

The half-celestial has 150,000 of items, when she should have 200,000, according to her level.

Banshee

 

[Prism]

The halfling passed 24 hours from being drained while the party was resting to get more restoration spells for him, and then failed three of the saves to remove negative levels, and suffered permanent level loss.
Banshee

You know that restoration can recover those permanent levels lost?

 

[shilsen]

You know that restoration can recover those permanent levels lost?

Not if 24 hrs have passed since it lost the level, as his post said had already passed. Greater Restoration will do it, if the period is not more than a week per caster level.

 

[Banshee16]

Not if 24 hrs have passed since it lost the level, as his post said had already passed. Greater Restoration will do it, if the period is not more than a week per caster level.

Therein lies the problem. However, it raises another opportunity...now that the PCs have been able to return to Istivin, if they can defeat the BBEG, a suitable reward from the local church, if there's a powerful-enough priest around, would be the casting of a greater restoration...

Banshee

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm not sure what others find, but I find the monk class overpowered to start with.....

/me dies laughing

But seriously, VoP can totally break a character especially if the other characters aren't getting the recommended dosage of wealth to put into their own items. A tank fighter can easily have an AC in the high 20s/low 30s by mid-high levels, and he'll hit more often and do more damage to boot. But he needs items to do it with.

Things have reached a point where a good friend who's been in the game for seven years just announced he is quitting the game. I suspect it's partly because of this other character.

Quite simply, you announce, "Vow of Poverty is broken. I've let this go on long enough, but something has to be done. It's wrecking my game, and unfortunately that means it's gotta go." Work something out with the monk character to help compensate having to monkey around with his character, and move on.


...monk overpowered...hee hee...

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well, I sent out a call for everyone to forward me their equipment lists, and some of them are starting to come back with results. The druid clocked in with a total of about 81,000 gp of items....a 14th lvl character such as him is supposed to have 150,000 I believe. So he's already "under-powered" for his level.

The ranger/cleric/windwalker has about 38,000 gp, when an 11th lvl character should have about 66,000 gp.

The wizard is fairly close, but still under, with 63,000 gp of items, when (aside from penalty from dying) he should have been lvl 12, with 88,000 gp of items. However, his cohort who just recently joined is way overpowered, with 135,000 gp for an 11th lvl NPC, who should only have about 21,000 gp. Ordinarily, this player is pretty accurate, and I haven't had problems with him before. This must be due to some form of misunderstanding.

The half-celestial has 150,000 of items, when she should have 200,000, according to her level.

Banshee

Therein lies the rub. You need to fix those wealth levels. Of course they're falling behind the VoP guy. He doesn't need to get wealth in order to have the benefits of wealth. He gets his plusses and buffs and protections for free. If you want to balance them out, they'll need some cash to match them up to the guidelines. I just don't allow BoED in my game, so the issue never comes up.