Thanee said:
@Pax: What, you don't enter a high level arena without immunity to all elements?
Sure, go ahead - that's five sixth level spells down the tubes. And once you're observed to have them going - a
disjoin on the key protection puts you back into the fire.
Kalendraf said:
This is exactly why 10 min/lvl is too long for these spells. When given the choice of the buff spells with a duration of 10 min/level or longer vs. other 2nd level spells, players will opt for a full set of buff spells and little or nothing else in their 2nd level spell slots. When the duration is reduced to 1 min/level, they actually start memorizing other spells as options.
Strangely enough, I've found the groups locally to be much the opposite. When the spells were 1d4+1 - and where the GM outlawed multiply-Empower-ing any spell - items were often preferred to spells. An item, if dispelled, resumes function by itself, a few rounds later - and it's benefits are predictable and reliable, to boot. OTOH, the spells were random and unreliable, and if dispelled,
stayed that way.
For second level spells, I saw Melf's Acid Arrow, Web, even Glitterdust as being generally preferable to the attribute-boosters -- both for my own spellcasters, and for the PC's of those around me.
Currently, I'd have to say, that the buffs (being now reliable and predictible in their benefit) are sometimes seen as desireable choices in the earlier levels (from third to around 8th), but once +4-enhancement items become available, the spells become a lot less desireable.
I agree that one HOUR per level was too much - but one MINUTE per level is IMO way too harsh a nerf.
Khristos said:
Besides DBF is for chumps a mxaimized cloudkill inside a forcecage with a dimensional lock and a projected image silenced gives me all the time in the world to eat a sandwich while you die (I like the slow con death) sure you might get a restoration off if I miss my greater dispel counterspell..... merry christmas
Shapechange to a Golem or other construct. No more CON, no more worries. And if that Forcecage is a Barred Cage, and you stay in LOS/LOE in order to Counterspell ... you're subjet to spells cast OUT of that 'cage. If it's a solid cage, then you lose LOE, and cannot counterspell at all.
Round one, dispel the dimension lock (
Disjoin works nicely for that task) and cast
nondetection on yourself; then on round two cast
mislead followed by a quickened
lutzaen's frequent jaunt to somewhere outside the 'cage (with your illusory double appearing somewhere OTEHR than where you are - and protected form most anti-illusion defenses by the Nondetection spell ^_^).
Saeviomagy said:
Unfortunately incendiary cloud moves away from the caster at between 10 and 60 feet per round, meaning that it's only likely to work on the target for two rounds.
Except the point of origin cannot move through a solid barrier - like the edge of the
Forcecage (Cubic Prison) ... ^_^
Beyond that, I'm not sure that acid fog will stack with itself... It would appear to be a case of two spells creating identical effects in the same area - IOW only the best applies. Since they're identical - it has the same effect as just casting the spell once.
So, do you only deal the better of the two damage results if someone casts
Twin Fireball ... ? The spells are damage-dealing, not penalty-inducing. The speed effects would overlap (not stack), but each spell would deal it's own damage, IMO.
Kalendraf said:
In the main campaign I run, magic is slightly more rare than usual. The party is 9th level, but no one has a single stat buff item that grants more than +2 to any stat, and there's maybe only 1 or 2 such items in the entire party of 6 characters. They do have a fair mix of magic weapons and armor, just not stat buff items. For them, these spells are still good.
Not entirely germaine to the issue at hand, though. Core D&D is not, in fact, a low-magic environment - it's a high-magic environment.
In a low-magic environment,
any "buff spell" becomes MUCH more valuable - and arguably, shoudl become a level or more
higher, or spellcasting itself should be
restricted in some way.
Faerl'Elghinn said:
Especially with Improved Spell Capacity and Persistent Spell... My DM won't let me do it (well, sort of- I cast it, and after a few minutes, I get persued by some uber-powerful extra-temporal creatures), but nowhere in the rules does it say I can't.
... which is why the Exodus immediately ruled that Timestop's
true duration is
INSTANTANEOUS. Nipped that abuse in the bud, but
good.
