D&D 4E Paizo and 4e.

[Melan]

Nor is posting an opinion about a new edition of D&D an indicator of whether someone is inhuman.

Not "someone", but certain attitudes definitely definitely strike me as a form of verbal brutality. Once again, I offer the following example, originally posted by WayneLigon:

"If it kills what D&D has been over the last thirty years -- GOOD. Should have been done a long darn time ago and moved the game into the 21st century. I want 'your' D&D to lie at the bottom of a river in a sack, feeling it's brain die as it runs out of oxygen, it's struggles heard by no-one and cared about by even fewer."

It hit a nerve. Nobody should be talking about other peoples' fun this way. I don't mind flamewars (although, of course, they are regulated here), but even there, there are limits of compassion and decency. Is it a huge thing? No, of course not. But it uses images which conjure up helplessness and acts of heinous brutality. We have control over the language we use, and it is our responsibility as decent human beings not to cross certain lines.

This stated, I am going to alter my sig to something more wholesome. It was not a good idea to adopt it in the first place, not even as a cautionary note.

 

[Maggan]

Just to quantify a little bit how, for me, D&D is "much more than a game," I met my wife of now more than 15 years of happy marriage at a gaming table. I also met one of my oldest and best friends at a gaming table. Sure, D&D is a game but it has significant associations in my life that go well beyond the game. I know I am not alone in this.

But how much of that is dependent on the changes in 4e? A new edition of D&D won't change your story, it won't take away your wife, or your friend. You're not losing anything of your identity as a gamer.

D&D is much more than a game, but your life is so much more than the latest edition of D&D. Your life is your own, and what you have lived, no one can change, or take away. Regardless of what changes to D&D are wrought in the forges of WotC.

/M

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Not "someone", but certain attitudes definitely definitely strike me as a form of verbal brutality. Once again, I offer the following example, originally posted by WayneLigon:

It hit a nerve. Nobody should be talking about other peoples' fun this way. I don't mind flamewars (although, of course, they are regulated here), but even there, there are limits of compassion and decency. Is it a huge thing? No, of course not. But it uses images which conjure up helplessness and acts of heinous brutality. We have control over the language we use, and it is our responsibility as decent human beings not to cross certain lines.

This stated, I am going to alter my sig to something more wholesome. It was not a good idea to adopt it in the first place, not even as a cautionary note.

Yes, I think I can agree with you here. The post seemed over the top for my taste (even if I definitely see me in the D&D 4 fanboy camp.)

On a lighter note:

Your life is your own, and what you have lived, no one can change, or take away.

Except the Haitian.

 

[Grog]

Not "someone", but certain attitudes definitely definitely strike me as a form of verbal brutality. Once again, I offer the following example, originally posted by WayneLigon:

There's no doubt that the imagery in that comment was over-the-top, but it doesn't suggest that the person who made it is inhuman. If he'd been talking about a person that way, it would be different, but he wasn't. He was talking about a game - a collection of books and maps, nothing more.

We have control over the language we use, and it is our responsibility as decent human beings not to cross certain lines.

Which includes not using words like "inhuman" when they don't apply.

 

[Desdichado]

Anyone who doesn't get how D&D is or can be "much more than a game" is either not paying attention (put kindly), is being intentionally obtuse or has a limited or highly idiosyncratic (being kind again) experience, IMO.

And yet.... it's still just a game.

In any case, I think y'all'd have a leg to stand on rhetorically if it were true the 4e meant your current books would suddenly turn blank or burst into flames or something.

If you don't like the new edition... don't switch! Your experience with D&D doesn't have to change in the slightest if you don't want it to.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

To stay within the "relationship problem" analogy, it sounds more like WOTC is saying:

"I have been making changes a lot in my life, and I want to always continue growing. I have come to a point that I need a change and I want you to share it with me. I know it will not feel the same, and I can't really talk about it, but if you trust me I feel confident that we can still have lots of fun together. I hope you can accept this change in me. I am not taking you away from your old friends, but its just time for me to make some changes. I hope you can come along for the ride with me, I really want you to."

This thread is starting to freak me out.

 

[barsoomcore]

They'll remain toothy little fathead dog-hating sadists.

Suddenly I'm wondering who exactly Mr. Jacobs is talking about, here.

 

[WayneLigon]

Not "someone", but certain attitudes definitely definitely strike me as a form of verbal brutality. Once again, I offer the following example, originally posted by WayneLigon:

Yeah, I was in kind of a mood when I wrote that and it is the toned down wholesome version that eventually came out. Let's just say that I think it's a really good idea that we have the rules we have and Eric's Grandma with a ruler in her hand hovering over us.

 

[Vigilance]

And yet.... it's still just a game.

Going a little overboard is part of the fun. There were people dressed as Tetris pieces at DragonCon this year!

And their costumes fit together!

And there were enough of them that they could link up and SCORE A TETRIS!

 

[Shadeydm]

This is funny, because I see the same exact behavior from the pro-4th ed guys, and not just in this forum but in the General Forum as well. Anything less than 100% agreement and/or fawning admiration for the changes being made draws some pretty snooty, elitist and unkind remarks.

If WotC came out and said the 4th ed core rulebooks were going to be printed on fruit roll-ups, there'd be 4 or 5 specific posters who would say things like "Finally!" or "We've been transcribing our rules onto fruit roll-ups for years now!" or "I for one welcome our new Fruity Masters!"

And don't forget, "If you don't like fruit roll-ups, then you just aren't the target audience for 4th ed. Adapt or perish!"

FTW!!1!