Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience

[CapnZapp]

Oh how I long for a random treasure generator!

I can definitely agree to that.

Ideally one that tracks the loot over a given level (since that's how PF2 works).

Meaning that you can specify, say, a large or small hoard for a given level, and that the generator tells you what percentage the generated list constitutes.

So maybe I tell it to generate three small hoards, then a large hoard. The first hoard is 12% of the level's worth, the second is 4%, the third is 15% so the total jumps to 31%. Then the large hoard is 38% so the total becomes 69%.

I can keep generating and placing hoards into my adventure, and once I reach approx 90-110% I just stop.

 

[zztong]

After running three sessions of PF2 and having time to mull over the experience, I have to say at this stage I don't think it's going to last with my group. Combats have ...

That's pretty close to what my group experienced. We played the entire playtest, post-playtest for months, then bailed.

Monsters acting on the same initiative, or not, really didn't influence our opinion. We tried both. The heart of our complaints related character generation and progression.

Having distance from the system has allowed me time for reflection. I used to count the three-action economy as a plus for 2e, but these days I think a two-action version would be better as it would interleave the actions of all combatants more. I also don't care for how frequently 2e's criticals happen.

 

[kenada]

Again, not sure I follow?

The CRB is quite specific on how much loot the game expects you the GM to hand out over a given level. I mean, down to specific numbers: such as "two level 7 permanent items, two level 8 consumables, 140 gold to each hero" (a made-up example)

What it doesn't say is when, during this level, you hand it out. That is because it doesn't matter, and because different GMs and different stories want to do things differently.

(I mean that whether you find your shiny magic weapon in the Dragon's hoard or whether a random beggar just gives it to you free of charge when you leave town doesn't ultimately matter)

So no, the assumption isn't that the level 10 monster has a level 10 hoard or something like that. The level 10 monster might have a sizeable quantity of the loot your level 7 party is expected to get, though. But that's up to the adventure writer (which might be you).

I think we’re in agreement. The CRB says you should get this much loot per level (including how many items, as you note), but it doesn’t prescribe how to distribute it. However, the quote from the GMG you shared is written like the GM is tying loot to encounters, but if you’re following the CRB’s guidelines, you’re already being mindful of how much loot you’re awarding and adjusting accordingly.

 

[kenada]

I can definitely agree to that.

Ideally one that tracks the loot over a given level (since that's how PF2 works).

Meaning that you can specify, say, a large or small hoard for a given level, and that the generator tells you what percentage the generated list constitutes.

So maybe I tell it to generate three small hoards, then a large hoard. The first hoard is 12% of the level's worth, the second is 4%, the third is 15% so the total jumps to 31%. Then the large hoard is 38% so the total becomes 69%.

I can keep generating and placing hoards into my adventure, and once I reach approx 90-110% I just stop.

What I’ve done is break treasure into parcels using the recommended loot per level table to establish a per-parcel value (e.g., 10% of the total value for that level). I then have small, medium, and large parcels that are 1x, 3x, and 8x the size of the base parcel. This works okay for stocking dungeons, but it feels weird for individual monsters. It also doesn’t have any randomization behind it.

What I would like to do is build something on top of this where if you just randomly generate all treasure for a level, then PCs will end up with about the right amount of treasure assuming a standard rate of progression. Ideally, you should be able to tweak parcel size or some parameter to accommodate different rates of progression. I’d also like that it not be tied to party level since the challenges in my sandbox hexcrawl are not necessarily tied to party level (e.g., old school dungeons where lower levels had stronger monsters and more valuable treasure).

 

[CapnZapp]

I think we’re in agreement. The CRB says you should get this much loot per level (including how many items, as you note), but it doesn’t prescribe how to distribute it. However, the quote from the GMG you shared is written like the GM is tying loot to encounters, but if you’re following the CRB’s guidelines, you’re already being mindful of how much loot you’re awarding and adjusting accordingly.

Oh, I see now. Okay, yes, that's a point:

"Just because you defeat that L+5 monster doesn't mean you get L+5 loot, not by the RAW and not by this variant"

 

[CapnZapp]

What I’ve done is break treasure into parcels using the recommended loot per level table to establish a per-parcel value. I then have small, medium, and large parcels that are 1x, 3x, and 8x the size of the base parcel.

"Treasure parcels" is a 4E thing, right?

In order to get a feeling of how much loot an 8x parcel is, how much is a x1 parcel expressed as a share of the whole level's loot? That is, how many parcels are there?

 

[CapnZapp]

I’d also like that it not be tied to party level since the challenges in my sandbox hexcrawl are not necessarily tied to party level (e.g., old school dungeons where lower levels had stronger monsters and more valuable treasure).

Since we're talking about imaginary technology, how about I magically erase the words "party level" and write in "monster level" instead; everything else stays the same...?

 

[kenada]

"Treasure parcels" is a 4E thing, right?

Yeah, the idea comes from 4e, though the implementation is different.

In order to get a feeling of how much loot an 8x parcel is, how much is a x1 parcel expressed as a share of the whole level's loot? That is, how many parcels are there?

I thought I was using 10% of the party treasure value, but after checking my notes, I think I am using party currency in sp instead. That’d yield 43.75 parcels at 1st level. Also checking my notes, these are the guidelines I have. Note that you can combine parcels (e.g., a dragon’s hoard would be multiple major parcels).

• Minor parcel (1×base): items carried by a creature
• Moderate parcel (3×base): found in a chest or cache
• Major parcel (8×base): small treasure hoard

So maybe I’m okay creature-wise, but it felt funky at the table last session. I need to reflect on that and maybe play with some examples more.

One thing I noticed is the party treasure table converts two lower level items to one higher level one. One possibly might be to assume a base of 6 permanent and 7 consumable items then roll randomly to split or merge those into lower and higher level draws from the other levels’ item tables (something like: roll for items, 2-in-6 chance to roll for two items on the lower item table instead of one for your current level).

Unfortunately, it will be a few weeks before I have time to really play with this. I need to rework Champion for my game because they work differently in my setting (someone wants to roll one up next session).

 

[kenada]

Since we're talking about imaginary technology, how about I magically erase the words "party level" and write in "monster level" instead; everything else stays the same...?

I was thinking dungeon level, but yeah. Even though I’ve accepted that will happen some due to running a sandbox, I’d still want to make sure I wasn’t going too far from the system’s expectations.

 

[CapnZapp]

That’d yield 43.75 parcels at 1st level.

The single official example I have (Extinction Curse) places each level's treasure at maybe a dozen locations, tops.

If the application we're dreaming about would just create a standard bag of parcels that would more than suffice for my needs:
1 "BBEG" parcel
2 large parcels
3 medium parcels
6 small parcels

As you can see, that's twelve parcels of varying size. I wouldn't recommend doling out the treasure in smaller drips than that.

If each parcel size is half the preceding one we get a parcel size of 1/28th:
1 octo-parcel (containing 28 gold on average for a level worth 100 gold)
2 quad parcels (each one containing 14 gold on average)
3 double parcels (each one containing 7 gold on average)
6 parcels (each one containing 36 silver on average)

28+14x2+7x3+6x3,6 ≈ 100