pawsplay's dealbreaker list

[small pumpkin man]

Again, the Mouser is not a wizard. Gandalf is a divine being. Belgarion is a Mary Sue. So is Richard Cypher. In fact, Richard Cypher is probably the President of the Mary Sue club. Rand Al'thor is more Sorcerer than Wizard by 3E and 4E standard, since his power is instinctual rather than trained, but I'd suppose it's agreeable though again, fairly Mary Sue.

Wizards that don't fight: Saruman, Elric off the drugs/pre Stormbringer. (Standard Elric is admittedly a fighting wizard). Sephrenia from Eddings' Elenium/Tamuli. Polgara. Belgarath. Quick Ben Delat. Khelben Blackstaff. The standard Wizard types in the Dark Glory War series.
Mordenkainen.

Tom-Tom, One Eye (and Silent?). Thulsa Doom/Thoth-Amon etc. Ged. Rincewind. Most wizards in Dying Earth. Circe, Morgan le Fay. Dallben. Most of the Wizards Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser ever meet. Others too obscure to mention.

Doctor Strange, Willow and TV version Harry Dresden (only because I havent read the books) who are perfectly capable of throwing a punch or shooting a crossbow, but you don't tend to see them running around with swords or taking on anything tougher than some mook with a sharp spork without magic. (Admitadly, Doctor Doom, Giles and Morgan do run around with such weapons, but whatever.)

(I'm tempted to say Vaarsuvius, but I'm pretty sure V doesn't count)

 

[Fifth Element]

I've never used or seen used storm giants, fire giants, dopplegangers, bulettes, werebears, wereboars, pit fiends, chuul, any beholder variant, aboleth, achaierai, aquatic elves, arrowhawks, stone giants, giant bees, or yrthak -- to name a few -- and I've been playing since '86. Personally, I've never or almost never used halfling, mind flayers, or orcs - and if it's true for me, it must be true for everyone, right?

You missed my point entirely. I understand how you can prefer to have certain monsters in the first MM. But the term "dealbreaker" means that this one thing, by itself, is enough to cause you not to play 4E. I said it's "interesting" that the lack of a specific monster in the first MM could cause someone to not play 4E at all, because I lacked a better word.

 

[Nellisir]

You missed my point entirely. I understand how you can prefer to have certain monsters in the first MM. But the term "dealbreaker" means that this one thing, by itself, is enough to cause you not to play 4E. I said it's "interesting" that the lack of a specific monster in the first MM could cause someone to not play 4E at all, because I lacked a better word.

Nope, got that point - and I bet, alone, the lack of frost giants wouldn't be a dealbreaker. But whether or not you use frost giants is also irrelevant to your point, and the OP's opinion. He's talking about his game, not yours. Leaving orcs out of the first Monster Manual wouldn't bother me, but I bet it'd bother alot of other people. Might even be a dealbreaker for some of them.

 

[Imp]

A 10th-level rogue in a world of 1st-level commoners (or even 5th-level fighters) is the greatest swordsman in the world. It's all about establishing your baseline.

The other baseline in the books is Fafhrd, who the Mouser crosses swords with on several occasions.

 

[D.Shaffer]

And that reminds me: with ranger multiclassing comes training in the nature skill, which doesn't fit the Mouser at all. He is definitely a cityboy. Fafhrd on the other hand...

Cant Ranger's pick Dungeoneering as their bonus skill instead of Nature? That would seem to fit fine.

 

[hong]

A Cant Ranger sounds intriguing, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[muffin_of_chaos]

Tom-Tom, One Eye (and Silent?). Thulsa Doom/Thoth-Amon etc. Ged. Rincewind. Most wizards in Dying Earth. Circe, Morgan le Fay. Dallben. Most of the Wizards Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser ever meet. Others too obscure to mention.
Doctor Strange, Willow and TV version Harry Dresden (only because I havent read the books) who are perfectly capable of throwing a punch or shooting a crossbow, but you don't tend to see them running around with swords or taking on anything tougher than some mook with a sharp spork without magic. (Admitadly, Doctor Doom, Giles and Morgan do run around with such weapons, but whatever.)
(I'm tempted to say Vaarsuvius, but I'm pretty sure V doesn't count)

I gots to say it takes cajones to list Rincewind and Dallben as examples. =)
I worry that why people still seem to think that casters are now worse weapon-users when they're obviously better in a comparative sense than pre-4.0. Hopefully not.
Anyway, opportunity attacks are based on melee attacks unless you have a spell specifically designed to be usable for opportunity attacks; there aren't many. Maybe most of these warlocks/wizards may not have Magic Missile as a power and instead utilize their fists for situational combat situations. Maybe most of these characters don't live in a world saturated with magic. Maybe even if it's over the top--and by anime standards, it isn't, and that's all the vogue right now you know--it still makes a heck of a lot more basic sense than the Vancian system.