permanent spell

[Hypersmurf]

Thank Mystra, that's the answer I was looking for in the first place

Mystra? Bah! I know not your pathetic Realmsian deities.

Go with "Boccob".

-Hyp.

 

[Someguy]

Ok, ok. No reason to get all caught up in a tissy.

too late...

 

['o Skoteinos]

But you do lose XP if the spell is not on the list, no matter what. Maybe I'm just not getting what you are trying to say. Try wording it in a completely different manner.

Why would you research what spells you can affect with Permanency? The way I see it, you only lose XP when Permanency works (i.e. makes the spell permanent). Now, when you use the trial and error method (you cast Permanency on a spell of which you do not know whether or not it can be made permanent, because you haven't researched it), you don't lose XP when Permanency fails, and you do when Permanency works. This way you save yourself time and money.

Example:

When the PHB was released, the Blindsight spell (MoF) didn't excist yet. You want to make this really useful spell permanent, using Permanency. You don't have the money to do extensive research, but you decide to try it anyway.

First, you cast Blindsight. The next round, you cast Permanency. Now there are a couple of things that can happen (personally, I would choose one of the first two):

1) You feel nothing (you don't lose XP). Permanency didn't work. This is either because you level is too low or because Blindsight can not be made permanent.

2) You feel weakened (you lose XP). Permanency did work.

3) Something else.

 

[kreynolds]

Read the section on spell research in the PHB. If you don't understand spell research, then discussing permanency is a mute point. I'm not being rude, it's just that I've already referenced this twice now.

This is ripped from the Permanency description.
The DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent. Researching this possible application of a spell costs as much time and money as independently researching the selected spell. If the DM has already determined that the application is not possible, the research automatically fails. Note that the character never learns what is possible except by the success or failure of the character's research.

Make sense now?

 

['o Skoteinos]

I've done so. I understand it. And it's not what I am asking. The question is:

"Why would you want to research (which costs time and money) if you can you the trial and error method?"

I've tried to explain what the "trial and error" method meant in my previous post...

Do you understand my question?

 

[kreynolds]

I'm not aware of an official trial and error rule. Sounds like a house rule. If it is. You're in the wrong place. As far as I know, there is NO trial and error method.

 

[Hypersmurf]

"Why would you want to research (which costs time and money) if you can you the trial and error method?"

Try thinking of Permanency as an application designed to increase the duration of the Darkvision spell indefinitely.

A clever wizard discovered that by replacing the draconic word for "darkness" with "invisible", the same spell could be used to make See Invisible permanent.

Over the millenia, a package of standard plug-ins for Permanency has been developed, which includes the list in the PHB.

If you try and apply it directly to your new spell - Blindsight, for example - then Permanency crashes with an "Unsupported File Type" error.

You then need to spend time and money on research, to develop a patch for Permanency to allow it to work with the desired spell.

Then it's up to the DM to decide if it's possible, or if there are simply too many compatibility problems.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

LOL!!! Good one Hyp.