PHB Classes: What needs love?

[Howndawg]

After finally finishing reading through the PHB, I am generally impressed with the overall quality. However, I did notice that some build options for some classes don't receive the love they need:

1) Avenging paladins. Looking at the power list, Cha-based powers are definitely favored over Str-based powers. In fact, there are no level 9 dailies based off Strength! The paladin really needs some more powers for those who favor muscle over charm.

2) Star pact warlocks. It would really be nice if there was a Con-based and a Cha-based power for each power level. But anyone who want a star pact warlock and wants to keep the flavor and not dabble into other pacts is going to have to go hybrid over deceptive or scourge. Also, the only PP for star pacts is entirely Cha-based. A con-based PP would really be nice.


Anybody notice any other holes which should be addressed in a future product or Dragon article?

 

[bardolph]

Battlefield Archer. Combined Fire is teh sux

 

[VanRichten]

I think Rituals need to be fixed overall. The double negative of cost and time on many of them I feel is too great.

The dual class effect system needs a overhaul. Seems to have been rushed.

I think there should have been more spells available to wizards. Seems like they cut the list to near nothing.

My biggest problem with this system is that it has too great of an emphasis on combat. Over 90% of character creation deals with combat effects. I think that is a bit too much.

Get ready for a 4.5E if you ask me.

 

[Ziana]

People have pointed out that the Archer path doesn't gain anything that makes them particularly suited to archery.

As Bardolph indicates, the Battlefield Archer paragon power Combined Fire is... a bit feeble. In many parties, ranged/area attacks by companions will be rare.

Beast Stalker and Pathfinder paragon paths are generally inferior to their alternatives.

Rogues appear to get a raw deal when it comes to Perception. A class bonus to the skill might be warranted, to make them more viable for trap detection if there isn't a ranger in the group.

 

[erik_the_guy]

I think Rituals need to be fixed overall. The double negative of cost and time on many of them I feel is too great.

The dual class effect system needs a overhaul. Seems to have been rushed.

I think there should have been more spells available to wizards. Seems like they cut the list to near nothing.

My biggest problem with this system is that it has too great of an emphasis on combat. Over 90% of character creation deals with combat effects. I think that is a bit too much.

Get ready for a 4.5E if you ask me.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Rituals seem like an expensive last resort when other party members can't achieve the same effect with a skill check. The dual class system is imperfect (but I prefer it to all previous editions). More spells for wizards are a must.
The fact that 90% of character creation deals with combat is okay with me. When you make the character (on paper) combat is the most important part. The role playing aspects of the character aren't subject to rules in the PHB and don't really go on the character sheet, it is up to the players to bring this out during play.

 

[Scarface6174]

I think Rituals need to be fixed overall. The double negative of cost and time on many of them I feel is too great.

The dual class effect system needs a overhaul. Seems to have been rushed.

I think there should have been more spells available to wizards. Seems like they cut the list to near nothing.

My biggest problem with this system is that it has too great of an emphasis on combat. Over 90% of character creation deals with combat effects. I think that is a bit too much.

Get ready for a 4.5E if you ask me.

You want someone telling you how to roleplay? I don't.

As for unloved classes? I dunno, haven't played or seen played all of em yet. I thought the wizard was weak, but that flaming sphere is dang deadly.......

The only 2 classes I haven't seen in action are the ranger and warlord. I played the Pally in KotS and know how totally awesome he is.

Our group (lvl 2)
-DB cleric rocks
-Dwarf fighter is a tank
-Eladrin Warlock is getting more aggresive as he learns his powers
-Tiefling Wizard who bought a 20 int hits often and hard
-1/2ling rogue...well, he didn't do well but that was just one session of bad tactics.

 

[cdrcjsn]

As Bardolph indicates, the Battlefield Archer paragon power Combined Fire is... a bit feeble. In many parties, ranged/area attacks by companions will be rare.

Rare? Wizards mostly have ranged/area attacks. Most cleric wis based powers are also ranged or area. Many paladin, ranger and rogue powers also work at range or area.

The real strength of Combined Fire is the fact that it's an immediate reaction attack. Most ranger abilities that has an immediate action trigger are for defense. This one is an attack that allows him to do an extra 20+ dmg out of his turn.

Is it situational? Yes. Is it the suck? No.

 

[Dausuul]

Rituals seem like an expensive last resort when other party members can't achieve the same effect with a skill check.

That is exactly what rituals are. Why is this a bad thing?

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

When building a 15th-level Cha-focused Paladin with the standard array, I had a lot of problems picking feats, mainly because a lot of feats now have pretty restrictive ability requirements, and very few of those have Charisma requirements. I suspect this problem will crop up with other paragon and epic tier builds out there. I'd really like to see a larger selection of feats for all class builds across the three tiers.

I think the specific classes are all pretty good. I think the option for a ranged warlord would be interesting, but with some tweaking I don't think it would be too hard to do.

 

[Dausuul]

When building a 15th-level Cha-focused Paladin with the standard array, I had a lot of problems picking feats, mainly because a lot of feats now have pretty restrictive ability requirements, and very few of those have Charisma requirements. I suspect this problem will crop up with other paragon and epic tier builds out there. I'd really like to see a larger selection of feats for all class builds across the three tiers.

Well, yes. I'd like to see more options for pretty much everything. But there's only so much they can cram into the core books, and at least they're pumping out a fairly steady stream of new options via Dragon. And of course there are plenty of 4E splatbooks in the pipeline.