Philosophy behind Intelligent Blademaster feat

[Nifft]

Whether that's devestating to game balance, or just mildly inelligant is a matter of opinion.

Soon it'll be a matter of experience, as we play with it.

My Wizard plans on taking it next level.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

My take on the philosophy that motivated it is that it could be summed up as follows:

"Attributes don't actually represent anything--every defender should have a strong melee basic attack. Therefore we will give swordmages a feat that lets them ignore strength and still have a good melee basic attack."

The net result is: "I'm a 98 pound weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so smart." If we see a series of similar feats like the constantly suggested "intelligent blademaster for charisma paladins," then we'll have "I look like a weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so pretty/spiritually gifted," "I am a weakling who has trouble lifting a breadbox but I hit like a truck because I'm so wise," and "I am a weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so tough." With the various regions and backgrounds, we already have "I get a cold walking through the sprinkler in summertime, but I can take a beating like Rocky Balboa because I'm so smart/wise/etc"

Go any further and, you might as well ditch all of the attribute names and just have attributes A-F. It would make more sense.

What should they have done instead? (And what should they do with charisma paladins?) Make powers that are usable on opportunity attacks like the swordmaster's precision cut. That way, characters are generally as they appear but can have some abilities to mitigate their weaknesses. This is far preferable to introducing a slew of natural spell type class abilities masquerading as feats that end up making all characters in a particular role function the same way regardless of what their attributes actually are.

 

[Drakhar]

My take on the philosophy that motivated it is that it could be summed up as follows:

"Attributes don't actually represent anything--every defender should have a strong melee basic attack. Therefore we will give swordmages a feat that lets them ignore strength and still have a good melee basic attack."

The net result is: "I'm a 98 pound weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so smart." If we see a series of similar feats like the constantly suggested "intelligent blademaster for charisma paladins," then we'll have "I look like a weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so pretty/spiritually gifted," "I am a weakling who has trouble lifting a breadbox but I hit like a truck because I'm so wise," and "I am a weakling but I hit like a truck because I'm so tough." With the various regions and backgrounds, we already have "I get a cold walking through the sprinkler in summertime, but I can take a beating like Rocky Balboa because I'm so smart/wise/etc"

Go any further and, you might as well ditch all of the attribute names and just have attributes A-F. It would make more sense.

What should they have done instead? (And what should they do with charisma paladins?) Make powers that are usable on opportunity attacks like the swordmaster's precision cut. That way, characters are generally as they appear but can have some abilities to mitigate their weaknesses. This is far preferable to introducing a slew of natural spell type class abilities masquerading as feats that end up making all characters in a particular role function the same way regardless of what their attributes actually are.

Intelligence at least makes some sense in being used as a melee attack stat, as instead of hitting hard enough to deal the most damage, it's knowing where to hit to do the most.

I will agree that feats allowing Con/Wis/Cha to be used instead of Strength don't make much sense to me from a fluff point of view, but ones allowing Dex/Int are actually make some sense.

 

[cmbarona]

I notice a lot of people talking about OAs as the only use for MBAs. What about the new Martial Power Rogue build that specializes in charges? They are supposed to be an artful dodger, just with a different slew of powers. Perhaps I overlooked it, but isn't Strength a dump stat for them as well? With the exception of one or two encounter/daily powers that can be used in a charge, won't their other charges suck if they try to pump Dex/Cha like artful dodgers are supposed to? What about Halfling Quickblades (MP paragon path) who clearly benefit from Dex/Cha, but whose daily stance grants MBAs?

As for the Charisma paladin, I think it does make sense for them to hit like a truck because they are so spiritually gifted. They are, after all, a Divine class.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I guess it depends on whether you assume that CHA paladins not automatically having a good MBA was a balance consideration or an oversight. CHA paladins /do/ get nifty ranged powers, a broader power selection than STR paladins, and do more damage with thier Divine Challenge (and, via a feat, heal more with thier Lay on Hands). The STR Paladin, OTOH, hits as well with his MBA as with his various vs AC weapon-keyword powers and can throw the occassional javelin. Those CHA-based goodies could be seen as balancing out lack of an MBA based on that primary stat.

 

[bganon]

I think the philosophy behind Intelligent Blademaster is just this:

The swordmage is supposed to fill the "defender" role, but there is no (intended) swordmage build with Str as a primary stat.

I think the reason you -don't- see an equivalent feat for Paladins is that a Str-based Paladin is meant to be a perfectly viable build (whether it's as good as a Cha-based Paladin is another debate). Even for clerics and warlords, which aren't defenders anyway, there are still builds that have Str as the primary stat (warlords are supposed to -all- have Str primary). So these other classes are intended to have perfectly viable builds with good BMAs. The swordmage is special, though: Str is -never- primary for them but they're supposed to be defenders, and I think good BMAs (and OAs) are seen as an important piece of the defender role.

Why they chose to do it with a feat rather than a class feature, I have no idea. They already sort of implemented it in quite a few swordmage powers anyway, so I'm not sure how good the feat really is. But I can understand why there's no equivalent for Cha-based paladins or Wis-based clerics --- if you're one of those two classes and want good BMAs, there's already a Str-based build available for you.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

As for the Charisma paladin, I think it does make sense for them to hit like a truck because they are so spiritually gifted. They are, after all, a Divine class.

It could make sense with their prayers. (And, strangely enough, it already works that way). With their melee basic attacks, not so much.

 

[FrozenChrono]

Intelligent Blademaster is not necessary for assault swordmages. A Str 16/Int 18 build would be fine without it. This build can also utilize multiclassing by going fighter, paladin, or pretty much any other str based character. Many abilities can be used in place of melee basic attacks which gives even more options.

Think about it. How often does your aegis get triggered per combat. Once? Maybe twice? If at all? Of course it varies from DM to DM, but most people will be fine with one encounter power you hold in reserve til near the end of most encounters in exchange for an extra feat to spend. Even with a low str you will have combat advantage most times your aegis triggers so you still have a decent shot at hitting.

When comparing to natural spell from 3.5 it's not nearly as clear cut of a choice. It's similar in importance to basterd sword proficiency, or multiple aegis. Most swordmages will probably take it, but not taking it doesn't vastly underpower you.

As far as the philosophy behind the feat being repeated for other classes? I'd give it a solid no. Here's why.

Paladins have a mechanism for cha paladins to lock down enemies. I think focusing on a few feats that improve DC are much more likely than a feat that will just make them more similar to their str focused buddies.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Slightly off topic:

it would be really nice, to make all classes have powers that actually use a secondary (or just the base) attribute as an attack stat to make characters a bit more multidimensional (what would be wrong with some rogue powers connected to brutal scoundrel use strength as an attack stat)

 

[cmbarona]

Actually, some of those already exist for Rogues, though usually as a secondary attack. As an example, I direct you to Riposte Strike (I think that's the name).