Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Scribe]

I'd really hoped our cyberpunk dystopia would be more interesting than the whole internet deciding to scream at me each October about best-ever prices on bidets and Android smartwatches.

Can't I get some cybernetic implants or a really cool motorcycle or something?

Its absolutely disappointing. Nothing cool, nothing really grim. Just bland tedium packaged around consumerism.

 

[Richards]

I always liked Scott Meyer's approach:

Johnathan

 

[Ryujin]

Its absolutely disappointing. Nothing cool, nothing really grim. Just bland tedium packaged around consumerism.

Whoever knew that the ultimate dystopia would be consumerist ennui?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Joking aside, I think that people confuse and conflate arguing with discussing.

I think that the structure of internet forums tends to lead to argument. And don't get me wrong- I am not a saint, and can get as argumentative as the next mook.

But generally, I think discussions, where the purpose is to talk, learn, and have a good time? That's why I am here. I get my fill of arguments every Thanksgiving, thank you.

I had a great course on negotiation back in college. One of the best things I read was a very short paper back on "getting to yes". The author talked about people getting stuck on positions instead of discussing interests. It was pretty eye opening and changed the way I approach discussions to this day.

After passing the Tx bar exam & getting an MBA, I went into alternative dispute resolution training.

At its core, it’s a multidisciplinary field, heavy on applied psychology. I guarantee you that it changed the way I approach discussions as a participant and an intercessor. But while I recommend the training to anyone who has to deal with people who are in disagreement, I also point out that my professors all agreed that it wasn’t a panacea- especially in personal relationships.

Because it doesn’t matter how well trained you are, people you’re close to almost always have made inroads & backdoors past whatever barriers your training can erect. They can turn a simple discussion into a fight with you, simply because they know how to press your buttons…consciously or unconsciously.

 

[trappedslider]

Whoever knew that the ultimate dystopia would be consumerist ennui?

Rockerboy Johnny Silverhand

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'd like to hear you expound on that.

I tend to think of it being more about the mode of communication (it being text-based, and not with people you interact with outside the virtual forum), rather than how it is structured, but I'm interested in hearing other thoughts as well.

I think you are correct in what you are saying- the text based format (which can lead to a lack of nuance and inability to discern tone) is part of it, the perceived anonymity (or virtual distancing even on platforms that have real names) is part of it.

But... I also think that the very structure leads to argument as well. Most of us have heard some variation of Cunningham's Law- "The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer."

However, most people don't realize that this was coined in the '80s.... and was about Usenet.

I think that there are a confluence of factors- the most obvious is that people are less likely to engage to say, "You're right!" Sure, some do ... but seeing something wrong ... on the internet ... that really motivates people to actually write something. I think that this is a common experience; you see a person post something that you agree with, and you might (if it is offered) give a "like," but you are probably less motivated to say, "Snarf. I noticed that, as always, you are correct. BRAVO!"

On the other hand, when you see something wrong, you just can't help yourself.

I think it's also a function of threading and replies; you reply, you are quoting someone. Usually, that "pings" them, and if you are disagreeing (in whole or in part) with something they wrote, that tends to make them reply to you, and then you are pinged, and you reply, and then ...

I am sure there is something something science about endorphins and notifications, but that would require me to do research.

Finally, I think that classically, there's the idea that you have thesis :: antithesis :: synthesis. But people on the internet are rarely interested in discussing things in that fashion; the nature of a forum is conducive to staking a position and holding it, so you rarely get to the synthesis. It's more thesis :: antithesis :: strawman :: logical fallacy :: yo mama.

But overall, I think that there is something structural that tends to promote argument over discussion; it's not that you can't have places with good or great discussion, but that structural forces act against that to the extent that we need to act against it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Whoever knew that the ultimate dystopia would be consumerist ennui?

The set designers, costumers and background artists for every piece of visual cyberpunk IP.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The set designers, costumers and background artists for every piece of visual cyberpunk IP.

All the bidet ads are why Harrison Ford looks so depressed in the Blade Runner movies.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

All the bidet ads are why Harrison Ford looks so depressed in the Blade Runner movies.

Even if the skies cleared and people could look up, they still couldn’t see the stars because of all the neon & holographic advertising.

And the birds are being drowned out by the loudspeakers.

 

[overgeeked]

Whoever knew that the ultimate dystopia would be consumerist ennui?

Give it a few years for climate change to really kick in and the start of the global resource wars. Pretty sure that will put “there’s advertising on the internet” as a dystopia to shame.