Playing a lower level copy of your character

[nachos]

I've been keeping copies of my character at every other level. I recently made the jump to level 11 in order to play It's All in the Blood (11-16). Since there's no other Expeditions adventures for tier 3, could I take a copy of a lower level version of my character and keep playing? Assuming of course that I don't replay modules I've played before.

Do I have other options? This is a Tyranny of Dragons story origin character that played from 1-7 in Hoard of the Dragon Queen and then switched over to Expeditions play. Say I wanted to join an Out of the Abyss table, could I use a lower level version of my character? If not, could I jump in when they hit Tier 3?

Thanks.

 

[kalani]

No. You would need to make a new 1st level character (and level them) in order to play lower level adventures. As far as there being no other Tier 3 expeditions, DDEX 3-16 is a Tier 3 adventure which will be released this season, and there will be additional Tier 3 expeditions in (most, if not all) future seasons.

Your Tier 3 character can join any tier 3 table including (but not limited to): Rise of Tiamat (about half of this adventure is Tier 3), Princes of the Apocalypse (chapter 5 and maybe one chapter 6 sidequest only), and the Tier 3 portion of Out of the Abyss.

If you are playing the hardcover adventures, you can also join a table of Tier 2 characters providing the APL (average party level) is within ~2 levels of your character (in this case, APL 9). You could not however, join any tier 2 expeditions

 

[Coredump]

Your Tier 3 character can join any tier 3 table including (but not limited to): Rise of Tiamat (about half of this adventure is Tier 3), Princes of the Apocalypse (chapter 5 and maybe one chapter 6 sidequest only), and the Tier 3 portion of Out of the Abyss.

If you are playing the hardcover adventures, you can also join a table of Tier 2 characters providing the APL (average party level) is within ~2 levels of your character (in this case, APL 9). You could not however, join any tier 2 expeditions

While this is very solid advice. The Official stance is there are no tiers in the hardcovers, and thus technically no such restrictions as detailed above.

That said, it is good to stay within the spiirit of the rules and not be a very different level than the hardcover is geared for, nor a very different level than the rest of the party.

 

[kalani]

I was referring to this FAQ entry and the fact that certain dungeons in the adventures are optimized for certain levels (this is explicit in PotA, and implied with HotDQ/RoT. Can't speak for OotA as I don't own that one yet).

When playing the hardcover adventures (e.g., Hoard of the Dragon Queen or Princes of the Apocalypse), can characters of different tiers adventure in the same party?
Yes. The Tier paradigm is in place for the D&D Expeditions because each tier has a pretty large power difference than the previous or later tier. Since each D&D Expeditions adventure stands on its own, it's easy to make sure that characters fit within the tier structure. For the published hardcover adventures, however; it's not quite as easy. When players and characters drop in and out of the game, the characters will end up with different character levels and as the game advances some characters will start new.

For example, there may be a time when most characters in the group are 4th level and there may be another character who is 2nd level. When those 4th level characters advance to 5th level and the 2nd level character is 3rd or 4th level, they're technically in different tiers. It's unfair to say that 3rd or 4th level character cannot play with the 5th level characters because of the tier paradigm.

A good rule to follow is that if a character is within 1 or 2 levels from the average party level (APL) they should have no trouble fitting into the group. If they're further away from the APL there's likely a chance (especially at low levels) that lower level characters will die easily.

 

[Mirtek]

I was referring to this FAQ entry and the fact that certain dungeons in the adventures are optimized for certain levels (this is explicit in PotA,

But does this translate into an explicit rule or is this merely an explicit suggestion?

Surely a T3 paladin shouldn't gather 2 friends and go get lightbringer from a T1 sidequest in OotA.

But is this only against the spirit of the rules or is it actually against the rules?

I've been asked to participate in such a sidetrack, which just would have been labeled as full OotA homeplay rather than encounters.

i've declined because it did not feel right to me, but i am not sure what the rules actually say about this.

The paladin could likely solo it, he just wanted two more since he was unsure whether he needs at least 3 for an AL legal table

 

[Tyranthraxus]

If I was a dm and someone came to me and said me and my 2 friends want to play in the T1 Sidequest to get Lightbringer and he was level 12 and they were level 1 , Id laugh in his face and tell him to try some other sucker.

If it isnt illegal, it certainly goes against the spirit of the game.

 

[Mirtek]

If it isnt illegal, it certainly goes against the spirit of the game.

that's why I declined. Wasn't even supposed to include level 1 members, just three 8/9 quickly destroying the sidequest to get the paladin his lightbringer and do so under the umbrella if OotA homeplay rather than encounters.

I'm already curios if i'll eventually see him again wielding lightbringer the next time we end in the same game (online play so i don't really know him) personally.

Although I have to admit i understand his desire. It's a paladin of Lathander, heavily into the dawn and new light aspect and lightbringer seems to just have been written for exactly this character. Unfortunately he was already over 4th level when OotA way released. I am sure he would play a t2 or t3 adventure to win it if that were possible. Yet i couldn't bring myself to join this three high end T2 in a low T1 quest shenigan

 

[Tyranthraxus]

We can only do our best to avoid such situations by avoid it ourselves. as an LC Its not my job to stop people doing that, but also its not my job to tell people they CAN do it.

 

[Pauper]

as an LC Its not my job to stop people doing that,

In all seriousness, whose job is it? Each DM in the region, separately?

More importantly, whose job is it to fix the problem once it happens, because not every DM is 'in the loop'?

I understand the desire to avoid becoming the 'AL rules police', but some DMs will allow anything that isn't explicitly prohibited. Others simply don't participate in the online fora where they'd learn that this kind of thing is discouraged, if not illegal. IMO, anyway, the Local Coordinators have a big role to play in keeping their local DMs on the same page, from a 'this is how we run games here' standpoint.

--
Pauper

 

[kalani]

There is nothing stopping players from running through lower level quests.

With that being said, the DM is expected to keep the difficulty as intended (whether they do or not however, is another story).
As such, this might mean increasing the number of creatures to a ridiculous rate (depending on party level), as DMs cannot substitute creatures with more powerful alternatives (only add more of the same). Eventually, you hit a saturation point where more creatures really don't make the encounter more difficult (only a war of attrition). This point varies from encounter to encounter, but once it is reached - you basically hit the point where the DM cannot maintain the intended difficulty, and at this point - higher level characters should probably not participate in the encounter.

The encounter in question however, appears balanced for a party of 5th-6th level characters. I ran through it at 4th level, and it was quite difficult and almost resulted in a TPK (despite having well prepared and highly skilled players). I was forced to use 3 of my 5 healing potions that fight. Admittedly, we didn't have anyone with Turn Undead (which would have made it that much easier), as our healer was a druid.